This is for topical issues effecting our fair world... you can quit snickering anytime. Note: It is the desire of the leadership of SFDebris Conglomerate that all posters maintain a civil and polite bearing in this forum, regardless of how you feel about any particular issue. Violators will be turned over to Captain Janeway for experimentation.
The notion that the United States is “polarized” into two conflicting, equally stubborn and extreme camps infects much of the mainstream news coverage and everyday chatter about politics. Washington is “broken.” “Gridlock” is a problem. “No one goes out to dinner with someone on the other side.” Such mealy-mouthed language masks a stark dichotomy: Democrats have to move to the center to get bipartisan support; Republicans have become radicalized and unmovable. This is not “polarization.” It is the authoritarian capture of much of the GOP by a right-wing movement bent on sowing chaos. Turkey, Hungary and other countries with autocratic strongmen are not polarized; democratic forces try their best to prevent their country’s ruin and collapse into total dictatorship. Our political scene, sadly, has come to resemble the global authoritarian assault on democracy. […] The bipartisan border compromise … was sunk by Republicans. Republicans in the House overwhelmingly opposed the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, commonly known as the “Bipartisan” Infrastructure Bill (which President Biden modified to get bipartisan support); almost every Republican voted against the Chips Act, they all voted against the Inflation Reduction Act, and some even voted against the Pact Act, which would have helped veterans. House Republicans have launched phony, baseless impeachment hearings. Senate Republicans filibustered reenactment of a key part of the Voting Rights Act, blocked a bipartisan Jan. 6, 2021, commission and overwhelmingly refused to convict four-times-indicted former president Donald Trump. The assertion that hyper-partisanship, chaos and nihilism (e.g., threatening to shut down the government, egging on a default and refusing to even vote on Ukraine aide) is equally divided amounts to an outright fabrication — or utter cluelessness.
You have a badly set up democracy. Simple as that. You have blue. You have red. You have nothing else. And if you vote blue, you can still get red as proven with both Bush and Trump. It allows shit like this to happen because they know that no matter how hard they fuck up, they'll be back in again.
I'm with Kami. As shitty as the UK system is, and it absolutely does have problems, at least a third party like the SNP can upset the apple cart. And in Europe, coalition governments are par the course. It is much harder to take a vote for granted here.
We used to argue whether Star Trek or Star Wars was better. Now we argue which one is worse.
clearspira wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 8:47 pm
You have a badly set up democracy. Simple as that. You have blue. You have red. You have nothing else. And if you vote blue, you can still get red as proven with both Bush and Trump. It allows shit like this to happen because they know that no matter how hard they fuck up, they'll be back in again.
I'm with Kami. As shitty as the UK system is, and it absolutely does have problems, at least a third party like the SNP can upset the apple cart. And in Europe, coalition governments are par the course. It is much harder to take a vote for granted here.
One argument I have seen for the two party system is that having a third party in equal strength to the other two, would effectively mean only a third of the population is represented. Or if you more than three, you can also run the risk of having a popular party galvanized by a popular cult leader be elected. Think MAGA or 'the other party' from another country.
With MAGA they represent only part of the Republican party, but still can be defeated with pure numbers from the Democratic Party plus those Republicans who are disgusted with MAGA.
clearspira wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 8:47 pm
You have a badly set up democracy. Simple as that. You have blue. You have red. You have nothing else. And if you vote blue, you can still get red as proven with both Bush and Trump. It allows shit like this to happen because they know that no matter how hard they fuck up, they'll be back in again.
I'm with Kami. As shitty as the UK system is, and it absolutely does have problems, at least a third party like the SNP can upset the apple cart. And in Europe, coalition governments are par the course. It is much harder to take a vote for granted here.
One argument I have seen for the two party system is that having a third party in equal strength to the other two, would effectively mean only a third of the population is represented. Or if you more than three, you can also run the risk of having a popular party galvanized by a popular cult leader be elected. Think MAGA or 'the other party' from another country.
With MAGA they represent only part of the Republican party, but still can be defeated with pure numbers from the Democratic Party plus those Republicans who are disgusted with MAGA.
Which is why most of the states where MAGA types have any power are trying their level best to make voting impossible. Banning mail-in voting, splitting blue districts, closing polling stations, requiring five forms of ID, straight up deleting voter registrations right before the election. And THEN you get all of the incidents of voter fraud, none of which have been committed to boost the numbers for DEMOCRATS, as far as I know.
clearspira wrote: ↑Thu Mar 21, 2024 8:47 pm
You have a badly set up democracy. Simple as that. You have blue. You have red. You have nothing else. And if you vote blue, you can still get red as proven with both Bush and Trump. It allows shit like this to happen because they know that no matter how hard they fuck up, they'll be back in again.
I'm with Kami. As shitty as the UK system is, and it absolutely does have problems, at least a third party like the SNP can upset the apple cart. And in Europe, coalition governments are par the course. It is much harder to take a vote for granted here.
One argument I have seen for the two party system is that having a third party in equal strength to the other two, would effectively mean only a third of the population is represented. Or if you more than three, you can also run the risk of having a popular party galvanized by a popular cult leader be elected. Think MAGA or 'the other party' from another country.
With MAGA they represent only part of the Republican party, but still can be defeated with pure numbers from the Democratic Party plus those Republicans who are disgusted with MAGA.
Which is why most of the states where MAGA types have any power are trying their level best to make voting impossible. Banning mail-in voting, splitting blue districts, closing polling stations, requiring five forms of ID, straight up deleting voter registrations right before the election. And THEN you get all of the incidents of voter fraud, none of which have been committed to boost the numbers for DEMOCRATS, as far as I know.
There is also districts that would straight up elect someone like Marjorie Taylor Green.
The advantage of the two party system is preventing something like the MAGA only party from happening. Numbers game.
I think for the US for a multi party system to work is for a truly ground breaking presidential candidate to come forth that is neither liberal or conservative.
I have thought for decades we had two large parties and dozens of minor ones with no chance to get into office. Now that has merged into the Republicans as a mostly united group. And the Democrats being everyone else as joining them gives a minor party a greater chance of being elected at all.
This is why the Democrats are less effective against the Republicans as they have a dozen or more actual views and agendas.
