What is Captain Janeway's biggest mistake?

[CareerKnight]

I don't think there can be any reason for the holodeck basically existing separate from the ship's resources that wouldn't turn into a voodoo shark.

[ScreamingDoom]

Actually, speaking of holodecks running on a separate grid, does anyone have any thoughts as to why logically this'd be the case? Can you use the holodeck as a means of emergency communication or something?

Given how often holodecks seem to malfunction horribly with some regularity, it might be a safety modification to have them on a totally separate power grid. That way, you can completely cut the power without endangering the rest of the ship operations. And, hell, the last thing you'd want is for a holodeck character to threaten to blow up the ship because it's able to get control of, say, the warp core through the power distribution system.

Why the computer systems are then not also separate is another matter.

And why it was completely unable to be modified by Engineering later on is also crazy. I could see in the Magic Meeting Room when they were discussing the power problems if, instead of B'Lanna saying that they were completely separate, full stop, she said that that the modifications to patch it in with the rest of the ship system would take a few weeks. It'd still give the excuse for creating the galley and having their stupid little holodeck episodes without being a voodoo shark.

[MaxWylde]

Thomas Riker shows why the Tuvix thing what such a terrible mistake. Still wasn't her worst mistake, that would either be stranding her crew in the Delta quadrant or making the choice to pursue a command position instead of sticking to science.

Not sure I feel up to rehashing the Caretaker argument again, but I think you can make a pretty good Prime Directive defence for Janeway's actions there, and it did probably help the Ocampa at least a little. Far from her worst action, even if the rational she gave in the show was not very effective.

As to command... I think that Janeway was meant to be a good commander in the show- the writing was just uneven. But if we take her as portrayed in canon... yeah, maybe.

The problem with this Prime Directive defence is that it's rather gooey. The Prime Directive itself is gooey. On the one hand, it's stated that Starfleet personnel are not allowed to interfere directly or even indirectly in the affairs of worlds deemed too primitive to understand the concept of alien star-faring races, or expose them to knowledge of such people, ostensibly. But, we've seen that Starfleet is willing to do just that, such as in A Private Little War, to prevent that world in the subject episode from becoming a Klingon satellite state.

But, then the Prime Directive kind of morphs into something that becomes so intangible one wonders why it's a general order at all, especially since we never see anyone called on the carpet for violating it (Picard came close in The Drumhead). The PD prohibits Starfleet personnel from interfering in the affairs of primitive cultures unless said culture is under threat from a more technologically sophisticated culture, and apparently this can be interpreted by the ranking officer on the scene.

There is a sound reason for the non-interference policy, and that is that Starfleet probably doesn't want to get involved in situations that detracts from their bigger missions, namely exploration (but the real one is defence). The situation in Pen Pals, where Picard and the Enterprise-D end up helping a world undergoing violent tectonic activity that threatens to shake the planet apart, is one such issue that Picard should've been court-martialed over, and it's shocking that he wasn't. I'm not against helping out little Sarjenka and her world, but consider that everything worked out all right in the end. Very convenient that all it took was a volley of torpedoes armed with special "harmonic resonators" to solve the problem. Suppose it didn't solve the problem, and it required the Enterprise-D to remain there longer, for, perhaps, days, weeks, even months? Suppose it required Picard to call in additional resources from Starfleet, thus letting the cat out of the bag? That's why he should be court-martialed, because in real militaries, general orders mean something, and if you violate them, even if everything goes well, it usually means the end of a career at the very least because Picard did not involve his chain of command in on this decision.

Which gets me back to Janeway and the Ocampa. There was no good reason to do what she did in helping them and thus stranding them out in the Delta Quadrant. We know she could've just as well destroyed the Caretaker Array and deprived the Kazon of any technology it had, and go home at the same time. She decides to help the Ocampa at the potential expense of her ship and crew. There was nobody around to tell her, "With all due respect, Captain, but this is not really your ship, but Starfleet's and the Federation. You do not have the right to strand us out here like this, for a people we hardly know, for an event that may or may not happen. And, even if the Kazon do manage to go in there and wipe out the Ocampa, at some point we can't take responsibility for this because the Caretaker kept those people in a juvenile state of lethargy for so long, out of guilt for what he did. We have a duty to return home to Federation space."

This is the kind of thing that Horatio Hornblower, upon whose stories Star Trek is loosely based on, about a lone ship with a captain who represents Great Britain and her interests because they're so far out of range of conventional communications that he has to be the embodiment of the nation he's serving in order to do his duty to King and Country, would not have done. He would not have helped out some indigenous group of people in a far away island fend off Asiatic pirates because of some worry they'd be exploited or worse, because that ship does not belong to him, but to His Majesty King George III. Unless such pirates were in some sort of league with the French and represented a direct threat to Britain and her interests in the Pacific, it's not in Hornblower's right or duty to render any sort of assistance in this regard.

So I'd say that Janeway's biggest mistake was stranding them in the Delta Quadrant to begin with. It should've been a major bone of contention throughout the freakin' Voyager series, where the Maquis were ready to pounce and assume command of the vessel at any further instances of the Captain's incompetence potentially costing them lives and time spent away from their loved ones.

[StrangeDevice]

Given how often holodecks seem to malfunction horribly with some regularity, it might be a safety modification to have them on a totally separate power grid. That way, you can completely cut the power without endangering the rest of the ship operations. And, hell, the last thing you'd want is for a holodeck character to threaten to blow up the ship because it's able to get control of, say, the warp core through the power distribution system.

Why the computer systems are then not also separate is another matter.

And why it was completely unable to be modified by Engineering later on is also crazy. I could see in the Magic Meeting Room when they were discussing the power problems if, instead of B'Lanna saying that they were completely separate, full stop, she said that that the modifications to patch it in with the rest of the ship system would take a few weeks. It'd still give the excuse for creating the galley and having their stupid little holodeck episodes without being a voodoo shark.

I think that's the show's problems in a nutshell: with just one or two more lines of dialogue, many of the recurring issues are papered over.

From things like the group dynamics: Where is the Starfleet-Maquis enmity? It's there, but not enough to often disrupt ship operations.

To the villains: Why are the Vidiians harvesting organs from other living beings instead of growing their own? It's not a biological issue, but a cultural one instead.

To costume choices: Why does everyone wear the Starfleet uniforms? They respond better to wear-and-tear than conventional clothing and the Maquis are of the mind that it doesn't really mean much in the Delta Quadrant symbolically anyway.

To some of the really big production choices: Why does Voyager undergo a factory reset after almost every episode? The Caretaker's remains have unique regenerative properties that repair functions as part of some complicated process of symbiosis. A side-effect of his experiments on the array.

All are easily mended with just a couple lines of dialogue or an added scene.

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

I'm not sure what the best way to address the Caretaker incident is, because there's a lot of overlap between questionable writing and questionable character choices. I'm not saying that the character should always be let off the hook just because the writers didn't think of everything or did a poor job, but in this case the dilemma was clearly supposed to be "Leave and the Ocampa die" vs. "Save the Ocampa and become stranded". Unfortunately, they didn't do very well in constructing that dilemma.

So who's to blame? Janeway for acting like it was a true dilemma, or the writers for being unable to write one?

[StrangeDevice]

So who's to blame? Janeway for acting like it was a true dilemma or the writers for being unable to write one?

Depends on how much you respect the character, I guess. Much like large swathes of Voyager, I like her in principle as the isolated captain who won't leave anyone behind, but in practice, she suffers a lot from faulty writing. Mulgrew manages to push past that in many respects and still make her interesting, which is a minor miracle when you consider stories like "Threshold".

[FakeGeekGirl]

One that's not talked about as much - not locking down the Ferengi better in False Profits.

OK, so the prime directive is so precious you'll let planets die but you'll interfere with these yahoos on the flimsiest justification possible? Fine.

But why in the hell would you not have guards on them and do a better job of locking down their little shuttle when trying to haul them back to the Alpha Quadrant? The jokes about Voyager's security are well earned.

And once they do escape right at the crucial moment you have your last chance to go home? Yeah. Sorry. Fuck the Ferengi and fuck the planet. You gave it the old college try, that planet's culture is corrupted whether the Ferengi go back or not, and you have like ten seconds left to get your crew home.

Oh, and once you do stupidly miss your chance to get home, instead of taking Harry's word for it after he's looked at the readings for five seconds, get someone up there to check his math before just leaving at least.

The pile up of stupid decisions in that episode just HURT. Ferengi schenanigans coupled with the absolutely genuine heartbreak on everyone's face when they find out they aren't going home is just really not funny, and I don't understand how there wasn't a mutiny right then and there.

[MaxWylde]

I'm not sure what the best way to address the Caretaker incident is, because there's a lot of overlap between questionable writing and questionable character choices. I'm not saying that the character should always be let off the hook just because the writers didn't think of everything or did a poor job, but in this case the dilemma was clearly supposed to be "Leave and the Ocampa die" vs. "Save the Ocampa and become stranded". Unfortunately, they didn't do very well in constructing that dilemma.

So who's to blame? Janeway for acting like it was a true dilemma, or the writers for being unable to write one?

The writers. I might excuse them for time constraints, but how hard is it to do a little bit of research in this? What you do to intensify the situation is to determine where the commanding officer's duties lay here, in this regard. Janeway had no duty to help the Ocampa; she may have had the privilege based on the Prime Directive, but I seriously doubt any admiral would've chastised her for saving her ship and crew and the Maquis from being stranded in the Delta Quadrant, however tragic the deaths of the Ocampa would be. Because that's not her ship and crew; those belong to Starfleet and the Federation, and she has a duty to see to her ship and crew's safety and return first.

But, you then would have to intensify the plight of the Ocampa, and give her more of a reason to see the Kazon as not only a threat, but genuine baddies; we needed to see a better, physical example of what they were going to do to that settlement. Where the show kind of misses here is where when the Kazon attack the Caretaker Array, they are eliminated as an imminent threat by Chakotay before Janeway makes her fateful decision. What the writers should've done is give Janeway a choice that only the Caretaker himself, alone, could grant: Send them back to the Alpha Quadrant, or utterly defeat the Kazon. There can't be any technobabble reverse-science engineer BS option on Janeway's part. The Caretaker is going to die, but he has this one last thing he can do, and after that, it's done, and without him, Voyager can't use his technology on the array to help them get home because it's all gone, blown up or something, and it's technology only he could use anyway for some reason.

This would've been better because then it would've kept the dilemma of her decision resting on the characters on the show. The Maquis and some Starfleet elements would express dissatisfaction for that decision, and that would've been a strike against her leadership as Captain of the Voyager. There should've been this Damocles' Sword over her head waiting to drop at further signs of incompetence, real or imagined, in the form of a mutiny, and it should've lasted throughout the whole series. Janeway would then have to prove her abilities as a leader, not simply because she has the right and privilege to be Captain of the Voyager, but because she's earned the right to do so by present merit.

[Durandal_1707]

We will bear in mind that it was Kes originally who sensed a "malevolence", a "cold hatred" from this species

Seriously, if you were dealing with a horde of space zombies from another dimension trying to invade your home and assimilate you and your people, you'd be malevolent and hateful too.

and interpreted their advance as an invasion force.

Incorrectly.

Which would be down to Kes, right?

Making such a major decision without understanding the situation is 100% on Janeway, though.

and "Your galaxy will be purged," which are both pretty unambiguous.

Is it though? That could just be purged of the Borg. Keep in mind that the "Hope and Fear" guy's planet was aware of 8472, and was not afraid of them, but rather saw them as potential saviors against the Borg.

Assuming that they interpret every organism as individually distinct, why not say "purged of the Borg"?[/quote]
These things are a fundamentally different form of life that can only communicate via telepathy, and you're complaining that they weren't specific enough in their wording?

Which points out something interesting, the Borg are likely not the only thing that 8472 are aware of because Arturis's species knew of them. After all, what race of linguists wouldn't have a couple telepaths in its midst? Why wouldn't these people try to communicate with Species 8472 and try to give them a leg up in their conflict?

They were aware of Species 8472, but that does not prove that Species 8472 was aware of them. The latter were tied up with fighting an invading force; random minor planets probably weren't on their radar.

Janeway warns them to stop their attacks or face retaliation, uses the weapon when they're assaulted, warns them off again once they've returned to normal space and then uses it again in self-defence.

The main reason Voyager was attacked was because they'd made the worst possible first impression, seeming by all appearances to be allies of the Borg.

By sending a standard hail and beaming aboard a dead cube like pirates?[/quote]
Standard hail: 8472 doesn't communicate this way, so they probably didn't understand its purpose. The tractor beam was likely a lot easier to understand...

Beaming aboard like pirates: Not so much. There were plenty of Borg still on that ship; calmly walking around a ship whose occupants are still alive, with neither side reacting in a hostile manner to the other, is not how pirates operate. For all 8472 knew, the Voyager crew were there to assist with the repairs. (Plus, this all assumes that 8472 even has a concept of what pirates are in the first place.)

Okay, suppose you're one guy, on one side of Hitler's empire, and you need to get to the other end of it to get home. Hitler's fighting Stalin, and Stalin is, so far, winning. However, you possess a technological deus ex machina that can nullify the Red Army's advantage, causing Hitler to be able to overpower it. As a result, untold numbers of people living near the border zone will be hauled off to death camps. Would you give this deus ex machina to Hitler in exchange for passage through Nazi territory?

There's a horrible choice. Well... Assuming that I'm neither part of the Nazi regime, nor a Stalinist and this superweapon is radiological, I'd say... No. No, if it was just me, I would-- Gosh, what would I do with a weapon like that on my own? No idea. However, if I had a squad beneath me than I'd have to at least consider the idea. They're my people, after three years I'd hope they'd be my friends. I owe it to them to get them home. After two or three days without sleep like Janeway, I might even think that it's a good idea. That's the thing about war, we always cheat ourselves by believing that there are good guys when the reality is that each side is just as filthy as the other. It's not a decision I'd ever want to make.

If it were me, the answer's no. Not if it's just me, not if I have a squad. My squad being stuck away from home, possibly having to settle in a foreign land, is a minor inconvenience when compared to the tragedy of millions of people being hauled off to the death camps. Needs of the many.

[StrangeDevice]

Seriously, if you were dealing with a horde of space zombies from another dimension trying to invade your home and assimilate you and your people, you'd be malevolent and hateful too.

Deja vu. I think...

Making such a major decision without understanding the situation is 100% on Janeway, though.

Yep, as one itty, bitty terrified ship in the middle of nowhere.

They were aware of Species 8472, but that does not prove that Species 8472 was aware of them. The latter were tied up with fighting an invading force; random minor planets probably weren't on their radar.

That's a good point, but it is supposition though. We don't know for sure, one way or the other.

If it were me, the answer's no. Not if it's just me, not if I have a squad. My squad being stuck away from home, possibly having to settle in a foreign land, is a minor inconvenience when compared to the tragedy of millions of people being hauled off to the death camps. Needs of the many.

Even if we go with the natural, moral choice of turning down the idea, that still leaves the weapon of mass destruction though. It doesn't go away, you still have it, so what are you going to do with it? Destroy it and potentially rob your side of that crucial advantage? Keep it and paint a target on your backs?

These things are a fundamentally different form of life that can only communicate via telepathy, and you're complaining that they weren't specific enough in their wording?

Well, if there's going to be nitpicking about the etymology of "purged", it's the logical next step. You can't get picky about wording and then criticise about getting picky about wording. Regardless, the nature of an alien intelligence is that it is alien. The parasites from TNG's "Conspiracy" wished "peaceful coexistence", but it sure as hell wasn't what the crew of the Enterprise thought was unity. Had the television series picked up that thread and shown that Picard was responsible for annihilating a taskforce reacting against the Federation, would his actions have seemed less appropriate?

That's another thing... VOY's "In the Flesh" showed the aliens' idea of a simple reconnaissance mission was infiltration similar to the parasites and although "Boothby" and "Archer" were eventually reasonable, those that they had to answer to were still rallying for war (and would still do so if STO is counted). As "Boothby" says -- "I can't promise you the moon."

Standard hail: 8472 doesn't communicate this way, so they probably didn't understand its purpose. The tractor beam was likely a lot easier to understand...

Beaming aboard like pirates: Not so much. There were plenty of Borg still on that ship; calmly walking around a ship whose occupants are still alive, with neither side reacting in a hostile manner to the other, is not how pirates operate. For all 8472 knew, the Voyager crew were there to assist with the repairs. (Plus, this all assumes that 8472 even has a concept of what pirates are in the first place.)

Which more or less proves my point really. It's really easy to criticise in hindsight and point out knowledge that the characters didn't have at the time. Following this line of logic, Kirk is just as much responsible for letting Kronos One be destroyed as Chang in ST6 because Scotty told him that the torpedo tubes were still fully loaded and not checking for transporter signals to Kronos One from Enterprise.