ENT Storm Front (Parts 1 & 2)

[Arkle]

The reviews proper won't be until next month, but I finally saw the whole thing for the first time last night (I'd tuned out during the Xindi arc, and only came back towards the end of Season 4 because my Dad swore to me that the show was getting a lot better), and, whatever else you can say about it, it (or at least Part 2) deserves major kudos on one front.

Their "the title ship flies towards Earth" scene was much better than Voyager's "the title ship flies towards Earth" scene.

[excalibur]

It's always a fun alternate history though experiment to imagine a world if the Germans were winning or won WWII.

Though from what Cody at the Alternate History channel says, even if Germany had nukes, taking over the entire western hemisphere is pretty much impossible.

Even in this story with these stranded aliens giving the NAZIs some of their tech, it's incredibly hard to think the Germans would be able to maintain a foothold anywhere in America

[Madner Kami]

It's always a fun alternate history though experiment to imagine a world if the Germans were winning or won WWII.

Though from what Cody at the Alternate History channel says, even if Germany had nukes, taking over the entire western hemisphere is pretty much impossible.

Even in this story with these stranded aliens giving the NAZIs some of their tech, it's incredibly hard to think the Germans would be able to maintain a foothold anywhere in America

It's a question whether the civilian population complies or not. If the civilians don't, then it becomes an occupational nightmare, like France, the Soviet Union or, lateron, Vietnam and sooner or later, an occupation becomes an effective impossibility.

[GandALF]

Even in this story with these stranded aliens giving the NAZIs some of their tech, it's incredibly hard to think the Germans would be able to maintain a foothold anywhere in America

IIRC The German general does have a line about them being stretched a bit thin, but I think the writers were more in the "we're being cancelled lets go nuts" mindset like with the mirrorverse episodes and stopped caring about making sense (that is if they did to begin with being Enterprise and all).

[excalibur]

There's just too much ground to cover in America. We're talking about a landmass that's bigger than Europe with a population several times larger population. With a military of equal strength that isn't tired from conquests over the years with a much larger military industrial complex.

They would need to find a way to cross an entire ocean, hold ground and wait out for reinforcements. Even with modern military technology, that's impossible

[Archon_Wing]

No way the Nazis could have done anything of the sort as depicted considering the insane logistical problems. They literally ran out of gas. I mean the Germans couldn't even get ships across the English channel, much less an ocean! They just did not have the resources which is why they tried to go to Soviet Union for those, but the Russians didn't take kindly to that. It also turns out it's much easier to conquer an area as opposed to hold an area. Although if Hitler had long range weapons of terror, it would still get ugly even if he would still lose. Axis subs did terrorize the US coast, after all.

The UK and US were just never on Hitler's menu. Hitler's main goal was always going to be the Soviets due to a combination of ideological and practical reasons. The oil's to the east, the "living space" is to the East, and there is no doubt the Nazis put Slavs and Communists as the lowest rung to prepare the excuse of invading since Nazism thrives on having enemies and conflict. Genocidal machines don't make peace-- only breaks. The only reason to fight with the West was to avoid a two front war so he could focus his efforts on the Soviet Union. And since the Russians were also preparing fast for war because it's not really hard to ask what an expansionist country that has attacked almost all its neighbors is going to do next; no time could be wasted since Stalin wasn't exactly going to ask Hitler if he was ready or not. In a way, Stalin and Hitler despite having opposite political ideologies clearly understood each other since they shared the common ideology of being an asshole so they knew what the other was going to do.

Also I suppose what could happen is while the Allies would not "lose" they might have looked to signing their own peace with the Germans if they got too weary of fighting. Then while Germany would have never conquered England, US, or Russia, you would still have a threat in Western Europe doing their terrible things and people still suffering in places that were never liberated. Then you'd have fascism being more successful and its ideology spreading around the world, perhaps even in America where the Nazi sympathizers would come out of the woodwork more, as opposed to it being utterly crushed in real life. Though this is also unlikely as well as Hitler and Stalin would have come to blows anyways as I suggested above.

People fought not only to stop Nazis from winning. They also fought to stop the Nazis from making everyone else lose by being dragged down with them. And this is something that I find missing about "What if the Nazis win?" scenarios. Sure, if Moscow fell, the Russians just go further east while the German supply lines get longer and consistently sabotaged, rinse and repeat. If the Germans invaded the UK and destroyed the RAF, the navy wasn't just going to sit there idly and let the Germans come over-- anything that landed on shore was going to be lit. If they came to the US, then German troops would have had to deal with a lot of armed civilians. Hitler wouldn't have won, but there would have been a lot more death and destruction. I mean let's admit it. Nobody wants to here "Well, you're screwed but at least your suffering won't be historically significant in the long run."

You're not going to find themes like this here. If you want that kind of thoughtful stuff, go to DS9 or Babylon 5 instead.

But hey, this is fiction. An excuse to fight nazis isn't a new thing. Maybe Pro-nazi collaborators had a hand, or w/e, but given ToS had some really outlandish plots about Nazi conquest, I'll let ENT off since well, it's not like I expected any intelligence from it in the first place!

Although, what the heck is up with the title?

[TGLS]

There's a neo Nazi group called Stormfront.... Yeah, Enterprise was the only series to actually name an episode for a Nazi group, great way to start a revitalizing season! [/sarcasm]

[Archon_Wing]

Ah, I am aware of that Nazi group, though honestly I was hoping for some other meaning because making references to Modern Nazi groups is? Well, it's not smart. Yea I know it's ENT but still.

[excalibur]

Let's go with this idea and theorize what the hell could the aliens have given the Germans that would have made them even consider attacking America.

According to what little we heard, in this alternate timeline, Lenin was assassinated before his Revolution took off, meaning the Soviet Union most likely does not exist in this universe. This mean that Russia could very well be still sorta in control of the Romanov family. That could be a reason why the Germans pushed the Russians out of Moscow, though they fear a counterattack coming.

Also, it sounds like fighting broke out as far inland as Ohio. That's a pretty big push from the East Coast.

[Archon_Wing]

They probably would have overthrown the monarchy regardless given its state anyways. Maybe they would have been a Socialist Democracy instead. But without Communists, Hitler wouldn't be able to feed off that fear.

If Stalin doesn't come to power, than note that the Great Purges would probably not happen and the Russians may be more able to handle the initial German attacks. Even with the pulse cannons of the future, the Germans would run into the same trouble of replacing/maintaining them as with the rest of their more advanced toys. It's only a matter of time before partisans steal these weapons if they were to be used en masse. Incidentally, doesn't anyone find it disturbing that Trek people fight in close combat just wearing those Uniforms and no protection? (Except when budget allows I guess?) I suppose the reasoning is that protection would be futile anyways against other energy weapons but at the same time that makes them horrifically vulnerable to just conventional weapons or even just debris. And then you see Klingons invading DS9 with bathleths and Worf taking out Borg with them.

Then again, it's so hard to gauge the effectiveness of Trek weapons. I mean you have phasers that range from vaporizing people to mildly annoying them. I mean sure, there's settings but you see this in a lot.

It would seem that biological warfare would probably be the best way to gain an advantage and insta-melt gasses are common in the future. Apparently it did get brought up in this episode although an AntiNon-Aryan virus sounds like a racist's wet dream.

I guess you have to give the episode credit for them pointing it'd be hard even with future weapons that usually serve as magic given the franchise's love of technobabble.

Earth would become quite the wasteland regardless.