I have a question to those who want to legalize prostitution

This is for topical issues effecting our fair world... you can quit snickering anytime. Note: It is the desire of the leadership of SFDebris Conglomerate that all posters maintain a civil and polite bearing in this forum, regardless of how you feel about any particular issue. Violators will be turned over to Captain Janeway for experimentation.
The Romulan Republic
Captain
Posts: 748
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: I have a question to those who want to legalize prostitution

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Robovski wrote:You don't have aright to have sex with another person, they have to agree to have sex with you. You can argue that prisoners have a right to masterbate, you don't infringe upon anyone else that way and meet your need for sexual release.
This.
Fuzzy Necromancer wrote:wat
I'm not sure, but I think its his (extremely vulgar, creepy) way of implying that I must not have balls and a dick, i.e. "not be a real man" because I acknowledge that I do not have the right to fuck people regardless of their wishes.

In other words, he's probably a rape apologist.
User avatar
Madner Kami
Captain
Posts: 4055
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:35 pm

Re: I have a question to those who want to legalize prostitution

Post by Madner Kami »

The Romulan Republic wrote:
Robovski wrote:You don't have aright to have sex with another person, they have to agree to have sex with you. You can argue that prisoners have a right to masterbate, you don't infringe upon anyone else that way and meet your need for sexual release.
This.
Fuzzy Necromancer wrote:wat
I'm not sure, but I think its his (extremely vulgar, creepy) way of implying that I must not have balls and a dick, i.e. "not be a real man" because I acknowledge that I do not have the right to fuck people regardless of their wishes.

In other words, he's probably a rape apologist.
No, what he says is that everyone has a right to have sex with everyone he/she/it wants to and that is perfectly right. Telling somebody "You do not have the right to have sex" is strange in the least and indeed equal to castrating someone. The tricky part is, that the other side of the equation has the right to choose who they want to have sex with as well and if they do not want to have sex with the first party, then no sex shall happen, because the two sides did not coalesce into a social contract. Simple as that.
"If you get shot up by an A6M Reisen and your plane splits into pieces - does that mean it's divided by Zero?
- xoxSAUERKRAUTxox
The Romulan Republic
Captain
Posts: 748
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:02 pm

Re: I have a question to those who want to legalize prostitution

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Madner Kami wrote:
The Romulan Republic wrote:
Robovski wrote:You don't have aright to have sex with another person, they have to agree to have sex with you. You can argue that prisoners have a right to masterbate, you don't infringe upon anyone else that way and meet your need for sexual release.
This.
Fuzzy Necromancer wrote:wat
I'm not sure, but I think its his (extremely vulgar, creepy) way of implying that I must not have balls and a dick, i.e. "not be a real man" because I acknowledge that I do not have the right to fuck people regardless of their wishes.

In other words, he's probably a rape apologist.
No, what he says is that everyone has a right to have sex with everyone he/she/it wants to and that is perfectly right.
But, see, I never disagreed with that.

So if that's his argument, he either grossly misunderstood or is blatantly straw manning my argument.
Telling somebody "You do not have the right to have sex" is strange in the least and indeed equal to castrating someone.
Well, no, it isn't, and that is a gross misrepresentation of my position.
The tricky part is, that the other side of the equation has the right to choose who they want to have sex as well and if they do not want to have sex with the first party, then no sex shall happen. Simple as that.
Exactly.

You do not have a right to sex, technically, because if everybody you asked refused you, well, that's their prerogative.

You have the right to have sex with anyone you wish, provided that they are capable of giving consent and choose to do so (what exactly constitutes consent, however, is also often misunderstood or misrepresented).
ScreamingDoom
Officer
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:18 pm

Re: I have a question to those who want to legalize prostitution

Post by ScreamingDoom »

ORCACommander wrote:I am partially in favor of legalized prostitution. After all in one way or another we use our bodies to earn a living, why not sex as well.

However such legalization would have to come with some heavy regulation.
While I am very much in favor of legalized prostitution, I am against heavy regulation.
Street prostitution stays illegal. There are a myriad of examples of why this is a terrible thing and is generally used as the entire objection against prostitution outside of the morality sphere.
What are these examples? The reason street prostitution has poor examples of conduct has more to do with the illegality of the service itself rather than this particular implementation of it. I see no reason why street prostitution in particular should remain illegal, especially as economic forces will lead to most prostitutes ending up in brothels anyway.

Historically, brothels have been more economically efficient than street prostitution (only those prostitutes unable or unwilling to ascribe to the conduct or standards in a cat house became street prostitutes) and it was only when prostitution as a whole was made illegal that street prostitution became the pre-eminent form. The illegality of the service is what led to the more egregious exploitation of the prostitutes, not the mode of delivering the service.
Prostitutes should be in a Guild/Union organization.
I disagree here. By all means, if some wish to form a guild or union they can, but government regulation forcing it serves no benefit. Licensing should be all that is required.
Mandatory medical screenings every couple of months or so
Agreed. I don't know the specific statistics, but my gut feeling is that medical screenings every quarter would be sufficient to prevent most STD outbreaks.
Mandatory use of birth control/contraception and and binding contracts that any unexpected pregnancies do not hold the client responsible for parental rights or obligations, especially financial.
Also reasonable. The indemnification of any parental rights would be part of a typical employment contract, I would think.

I wonder how actual legal prostitution services, like the Bunnyland Ranch in Nevada, do that sort of thing? I know all their sex worker employees are considered to be free agent contract workers who merely utilize the Ranch's facilities (they have complete control over what services, to whom, and at what prices they provide to clients with the Ranch getting 30% of the income), but I wonder how their actual employee contracts deal with this kind of thing.
I would prefer if the workplace for this stayed in actual brothels since it would be a more secure environment but i can see the value in the discretion of a house service.
Again, in the past brothels provided the most economically efficient means of providing the service. There's no need to restrict the means; undoubtedly escort services will provide an expensive alternative and I'd be surprised if most brothels wouldn't offer such services as a matter of course. I know that the aforementioned Bunnyland Ranch has escort services available, but any actual intercourse must happen on the Ranch premises (presumably because prostitution would be illegal anywhere else).
A common database of blacklisted clients
I see no reason why this should be mandated. Undoubtedly, such lists would exist in any event, but to require such a thing as part of regulation is overreach.
User avatar
Karha of Honor
Captain
Posts: 3168
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:46 pm

Re: I have a question to those who want to legalize prostitution

Post by Karha of Honor »

Fuzzy Necromancer wrote:but...no. That is not comparable.
I still HAVE my genitals even if I don't have a warm hole to stick them into. They are part of me. Saying I can't high-five people isn't the same as cutting off my damn hand.
You could pee trough a tube? Might even feel better?
Image
T-L
Redshirt
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:01 am

Re: I have a question to those who want to legalize prostitution

Post by T-L »

Agent Vinod wrote:
Fuzzy Necromancer wrote:but...no. That is not comparable.
I still HAVE my genitals even if I don't have a warm hole to stick them into. They are part of me. Saying I can't high-five people isn't the same as cutting off my damn hand.
You could pee trough a tube? Might even feel better?
Or have others constantly take the piss out of you, which might be more efficient (obvious joke but could not resist).
User avatar
Karha of Honor
Captain
Posts: 3168
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:46 pm

Re: I have a question to those who want to legalize prostitution

Post by Karha of Honor »

T-L wrote:
Agent Vinod wrote:
Fuzzy Necromancer wrote:but...no. That is not comparable.
I still HAVE my genitals even if I don't have a warm hole to stick them into. They are part of me. Saying I can't high-five people isn't the same as cutting off my damn hand.
You could pee trough a tube? Might even feel better?
Or have others constantly take the piss out of you, which might be more efficient (obvious joke but could not resist).
If they can create artificial genitalia...
Image
User avatar
ORCACommander
Officer
Posts: 209
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:06 am

Re: I have a question to those who want to legalize prostitution

Post by ORCACommander »

ScreamingDoom wrote:
ORCACommander wrote:I am partially in favor of legalized prostitution. After all in one way or another we use our bodies to earn a living, why not sex as well.

However such legalization would have to come with some heavy regulation.
While I am very much in favor of legalized prostitution, I am against heavy regulation.
Street prostitution stays illegal. There are a myriad of examples of why this is a terrible thing and is generally used as the entire objection against prostitution outside of the morality sphere.
What are these examples? The reason street prostitution has poor examples of conduct has more to do with the illegality of the service itself rather than this particular implementation of it. I see no reason why street prostitution in particular should remain illegal, especially as economic forces will lead to most prostitutes ending up in brothels anyway.

Historically, brothels have been more economically efficient than street prostitution (only those prostitutes unable or unwilling to ascribe to the conduct or standards in a cat house became street prostitutes) and it was only when prostitution as a whole was made illegal that street prostitution became the pre-eminent form. The illegality of the service is what led to the more egregious exploitation of the prostitutes, not the mode of delivering the service.
Prostitutes should be in a Guild/Union organization.
I disagree here. By all means, if some wish to form a guild or union they can, but government regulation forcing it serves no benefit. Licensing should be all that is required.
Mandatory medical screenings every couple of months or so
Agreed. I don't know the specific statistics, but my gut feeling is that medical screenings every quarter would be sufficient to prevent most STD outbreaks.
Mandatory use of birth control/contraception and and binding contracts that any unexpected pregnancies do not hold the client responsible for parental rights or obligations, especially financial.
Also reasonable. The indemnification of any parental rights would be part of a typical employment contract, I would think.

I wonder how actual legal prostitution services, like the Bunnyland Ranch in Nevada, do that sort of thing? I know all their sex worker employees are considered to be free agent contract workers who merely utilize the Ranch's facilities (they have complete control over what services, to whom, and at what prices they provide to clients with the Ranch getting 30% of the income), but I wonder how their actual employee contracts deal with this kind of thing.
I would prefer if the workplace for this stayed in actual brothels since it would be a more secure environment but i can see the value in the discretion of a house service.
Again, in the past brothels provided the most economically efficient means of providing the service. There's no need to restrict the means; undoubtedly escort services will provide an expensive alternative and I'd be surprised if most brothels wouldn't offer such services as a matter of course. I know that the aforementioned Bunnyland Ranch has escort services available, but any actual intercourse must happen on the Ranch premises (presumably because prostitution would be illegal anywhere else).
A common database of blacklisted clients
I see no reason why this should be mandated. Undoubtedly, such lists would exist in any event, but to require such a thing as part of regulation is overreach.
While I do mean regulations as in a rules and standards body I did not necessarily mean for it to be governmental

well examples of abuses endured by street prostitutes include, Physical abuse by both clients and employer, rape by their employers, coerced into drug addictions, STI employers keeping a cut so large as to keep the prostitute in a state of objective poverty and dependency.

the black list would be better for a centralized database than a myriad of in house ones imo.
Fuzzy Necromancer
Overlord
Posts: 6317
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:57 am

Re: I have a question to those who want to legalize prostitution

Post by Fuzzy Necromancer »

Agent Vinod wrote:
Fuzzy Necromancer wrote:but...no. That is not comparable.
I still HAVE my genitals even if I don't have a warm hole to stick them into. They are part of me. Saying I can't high-five people isn't the same as cutting off my damn hand.
You could pee trough a tube? Might even feel better?
I am going to restate my initial query with greater emphasis.

wat
"Believe me, there’s nothing so terrible that someone won’t support it."
— Un Lun Dun, China Mieville
ScreamingDoom
Officer
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:18 pm

Re: I have a question to those who want to legalize prostitution

Post by ScreamingDoom »

ORCACommander wrote: While I do mean regulations as in a rules and standards body I did not necessarily mean for it to be governmental
Fair enough. I still maintain that such a thing wouldn't be required as it would happen naturally.
well examples of abuses endured by street prostitutes include, Physical abuse by both clients and employer, rape by their employers, coerced into drug addictions, STI employers keeping a cut so large as to keep the prostitute in a state of objective poverty and dependency.
Right, but all of those are the result of the illegality of prostitution in general, not the specific implementation. If a street prostitute could go to the police without threat of recriminalization about an abusive pimp or rape or other crime, or leave their employers as per standard, legal employment then those problems would not happen or at least be mitigated to isolated cases.
the black list would be better for a centralized database than a myriad of in house ones imo.
Maybe, but again there's no need to mandate that. After all, casinos maintain centralized databases on fraudsters, card counters and mathematics students without any intervention from anyone else, so I'd imagine bordellos would do the same.
Post Reply