The Afghan War is over

[ProfessorDetective]

I just found some sources that's been confirmed that Donald Trump actually made a deal with the Taliban to withdraw Troops from Afghanistan in May but Biden extended it to September.

https://www.verifythis.com/article/news ... e85e425e45

That is a well-known fact. Trump made the deal and Biden decided to follow through on it. At the end of the day, it's everyone's fault.

It's everyone's fault but mostly Bush Junior's fault.

I'd also blame Ragan and his administration. Them fighting the commies gave the Taliban the opening and some the resources to start their take over.

[Madner Kami]

I just found some sources that's been confirmed that Donald Trump actually made a deal with the Taliban to withdraw Troops from Afghanistan in May but Biden extended it to September.

https://www.verifythis.com/article/news ... e85e425e45

That is a well-known fact. Trump made the deal and Biden decided to follow through on it. At the end of the day, it's everyone's fault.

It's everyone's fault but mostly Bush Junior's fault.

I'd also blame Ragan and his administration. Them fighting the commies gave the Taliban the opening and some the resources to start their take over.

So you condone the soviet takeover of Afghanistan?

[Draco Dracul]

I just found some sources that's been confirmed that Donald Trump actually made a deal with the Taliban to withdraw Troops from Afghanistan in May but Biden extended it to September.

https://www.verifythis.com/article/news ... e85e425e45

That is a well-known fact. Trump made the deal and Biden decided to follow through on it. At the end of the day, it's everyone's fault.

It's everyone's fault but mostly Bush Junior's fault.

I'd also blame Ragan and his administration. Them fighting the commies gave the Taliban the opening and some the resources to start their take over.

So you condone the soviet takeover of Afghanistan?

Considering the USSR collapsed not long after, it would have been largely a moot point.

[Madner Kami]

I just found some sources that's been confirmed that Donald Trump actually made a deal with the Taliban to withdraw Troops from Afghanistan in May but Biden extended it to September.

https://www.verifythis.com/article/news ... e85e425e45

That is a well-known fact. Trump made the deal and Biden decided to follow through on it. At the end of the day, it's everyone's fault.

It's everyone's fault but mostly Bush Junior's fault.

I'd also blame Ragan and his administration. Them fighting the commies gave the Taliban the opening and some the resources to start their take over.

So you condone the soviet takeover of Afghanistan?

Considering the USSR collapsed not long after, it would have been largely a moot point.

You sure you want to let these words represent your thoughts?

[Makeshift Python]

I don't think he's condoning the Soviet takeover, rather he's condemning the US trying to involve themselves in a matter that wasn't even their concern, which then lead to Al-Qaeda, which then lead to 9/11, and now here we are.

Also, maybe we should change the title of this thread? It's pretty much done.

[TGLS]

Also, maybe we should change the title of this thread? It's pretty much done.

Done. Rejected alternate titles:
-> What a waste
-> That was pointless
-> Twenty Years, Countless Lives and Treasure
-> So when's China going to take their turn?
-> Get a Niqab and start running; fast

[Draco Dracul]

I just found some sources that's been confirmed that Donald Trump actually made a deal with the Taliban to withdraw Troops from Afghanistan in May but Biden extended it to September.

https://www.verifythis.com/article/news ... e85e425e45

That is a well-known fact. Trump made the deal and Biden decided to follow through on it. At the end of the day, it's everyone's fault.

It's everyone's fault but mostly Bush Junior's fault.

I'd also blame Ragan and his administration. Them fighting the commies gave the Taliban the opening and some the resources to start their take over.

So you condone the soviet takeover of Afghanistan?

Considering the USSR collapsed not long after, it would have been largely a moot point.

You sure you want to let these words represent your thoughts?

I with or without US intervention Afghanistan would be out of Soviet control by the time the 90s rolled around, unless you want to argue that Occupying, but almost certainly not actually controlling, Afghanistan would have spurred the USSR to continue existing as a nation. The difference is that we would not have supplied the funds, weapons, and training that would create Al-Qaeda.

I also think it's weird to pretend playing world police is a worthwhile endeavor for the US when time after time it's just lead to massive amounts of death and destruction with no real gain for anyone other than shitheads like Isis and ultimately the Taliban who now control more of Afghanistan than they did when we invaded.

[Makeshift Python]

Also, maybe we should change the title of this thread? It's pretty much done.

Done. Rejected alternate titles:
-> What a waste
-> That was pointless
-> Twenty Years, Countless Lives and Treasure
-> So when's China going to take their turn?
-> Get a Niqab and start running; fast

-> Bush retains the title of Worst President
-> "This will not be another Vietnam" Ron Howard: "It was."
-> The Handmaid's Tale: Afghan Edition

[Jonathan101]

USA and Al-Qaeda is a myth.

Al-Qaeda was funded and created primarily by bin Laden and his own wealth. They were ignored by the US in Afghanistan during the Soviet Invasion because they were bit players. At best they got some weapons second-hand through certain Mujahadeen but most of their weapons by 9/11 were off the black market or bought legally.

Closest connection between the US and Al-Qaeda was the AQ spy Ali Muhammed, and he trained and lived in America and he flew below the radar.

[cilantro]

The Taliban is about to take Kabul.

Cheers, Joe.

So do you no longer agree that the war was lost long ago, and the US Army has just been puttering around for years trying to find a way to save face? Or do you think if we'd just stuck in there another year we'd somehow turn this around and declare victory?

In 1950 the US went into Korea. 71 years later and 28,500 of them are still there, making sure that the North Koreans know to leave the South alone.
So let me ask you this: What is the difference between that and keeping a force of 4,500 in Afghanistan (as of Jan 2021) to make sure that the Taliban leave Afghanistan alone? How is one just right and the other too long despite the former being 50 years longer?

Great. Lets get out of Korea too. Fewer forever wars the better.

You still haven't addressed my question, much less answered it.

I did address your question by addressing America's hypocrisy. But ​at least you're honest. America has always been in love with trying to perpetuate a self-image of being the world hero. It seems that you guys are starting to reject your own propaganda and that is a good thing. Millennials and Gen Z are far less eager to open wide and swallow their respective government's bullshit as those before us were.

But remember this well because I intend to repeat myself in a few years time when the War on Terror returns to its 2001 peak: regardless of the rights or wrongs of leaving Afghanistan, the West lost. America lost. The UK lost. The Coalition lost. This is a second Saigon and it will only empower our enemies.

Okay. America lost the war. I already said that the war was lost years ago and we were too stubborn to admit it. Agreeing with you there.

What I don't understand is what your point is, what you would prefer the USA do differently, or why you are so angry at Joe Biden. I mean, yeah there's lots of reasons to be angry at Joe Biden, but why in this particular topic?
What are you getting at exactly? That the war was bad? That it is lost? That any attempt to save face and pretend we won is pathetic and transparent?

There is no reason to be mad at Biden about this. It was going to be no different if Trump did it, or some president in 2025 or 2029 that did it.

Not like the next year or 8 years would really change the situation in Afghanistan.

At best, benefit of hindsight we woukd have taken all of the equipment and weapons and let the Afghanistan deserters still desert. But that is benefit of hindsight.

Biden could've done a better and faster job of evacuating the people who have helped the US and the people who wanted to leave Afghanistan once the US announced they were leaving. THAT was his responsibility and they also drop the ball on the whole predicting that Afghanistan fall.