The hell is a "Freedom Convoy" and why is it harassing Ottawa?

[TGLS]

I think they were promising "no mandates" even as late as last summer.

In August, it was announced that continued employment in the federal civil service would be conditioned on being vaccinated. Vaccine passports were announced in September. This is how it is until Covid becomes endemic.

[KitWargSpectacle]

I think they were promising "no mandates" even as late as last summer.

In August, it was announced that continued employment in the federal civil service would be conditioned on being vaccinated. Vaccine passports were announced in September. This is how it is until Covid becomes endemic.

Workplace regulations aren't out of character for liberals, let alone when it comes to federal government jobs;

curfews and socializing limitations are already quite a different thing;

however this is individual freedom stuff, being told to get vaccinated or pay a fine - and if you then don't, the coppers knock at your door and you get jailed; or in more drastic versions, you just get jailed, or vaccinated by force.
The fact that the first thing all the politicians said wasn't "no no, first of all certainly not the latter kind of thing", which led to people&press speculating whether or not it might be the latter type, is already a bit... concerning.

And even with the fines as a middle-man to prison, I still can't think of any other issue where the rejection of such a government power isn't unambiguously the leftwing position, and support of it citing good public health/life outcomes isn't the rightwing position - STD control, drugs, bills&taxes, anything.
Well except guns I suppose, although as far as I'm aware that's mostly sales regulation...

[TGLS]

however this is individual freedom stuff, being told to get vaccinated or pay a fine

No, it's "get vaccinated or you can't cross the border".

--

Regardless, the protest has transmogrified into "we won't leave until all the restrictions are removed".

[KitWargSpectacle]

however this is individual freedom stuff, being told to get vaccinated or pay a fine

No, it's "get vaccinated or you can't cross the border".

--

Regardless, the protest has transmogrified into "we won't leave until all the restrictions are removed".

Well that's what these newest "mandates" and the protests against them are about, as far as I've seen, the ones they started talking about / announcing somewhere December/January;

workplace regulations, territory/entry restrictions for the unvaccinated, are a lot older, and less controversial.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Is this thread about Australia now or something?

[TGLS]

Is this thread about Australia now or something?

I dunno. I've been talking about Canada.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

So Quebec and Ontario are indeed instilling curfews, while Quebec itself is instituting a fine on unvaccinated people. Seems like a rather hefty fine ($680-1700 USD).

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/ ... 021-12-30/

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/11/americas ... index.html

[KitWargSpectacle]

Several Euro countries too, not just Quebec.



The WHO itself has "cautioned against it", saying it should be an absolute last resort, and cited public distrust and opposition as a main reason against mandates - and France so far is following that advice, but Austria, Italy and Greece are not and still implementing it.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

The fine is a measure to pay for overwhelmed hospitals by unvaccinated people. That aspect really does make sense (to me at least) and gets to the middle of what this whole thing has been about. Like if you want society to be open and want to disregard measures to curtail the virus on general partisan principle (meaning that you get the virus and end up in the hospital) then all this barking about freedom is nonsense if the hospitals are still being overrun.

Of course, just like the British tele tax, it seems kind of archaic. I don't think the needle should just be shoved in your arm for stepping out of the house. Engaging in society rather actively though is a different issue. If the hospitals are being filled up then they are being filled up.

Granted there are inherent assumptions in my model. As far as the articles I found up there, people over 50 are the ones being charged. That makes sense on paper, but precise targeting on stuff like this is weird.

[KitWargSpectacle]

The fine is a measure to pay for overwhelmed hospitals by unvaccinated people. That aspect really does make sense (to me at least) and gets to the middle of what this whole thing has been about. Like if you want society to be open and want to disregard measures to curtail the virus on general partisan principle (meaning that you get the virus and end up in the hospital) then all this barking about freedom is nonsense if the hospitals are still being overrun.

Of course, just like the British tele tax, it seems kind of archaic. I don't think the needle should just be shoved in your arm for stepping out of the house. Engaging in society rather actively though is a different issue. If the hospitals are being filled up then they are being filled up.

There are gradatlons - if one chooses to minimize contact, the "if you value freedom so much, why're you ok with getting sick and hospitalized" no longer applies, for instance;

and it's possible to be in (grudging or not) support of other measures, such as passports for entering property, while opposing mandates - the WHO is an example.