Former Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe shot dead

[McAvoy]

Can't say I'm sad to see the end of the war crime apologist.

Nelson Mandela did more than perhaps any other man to help end Apartheid. He was also the head of the South African Communist party who were guilty of at least a hundred acts of terrorism, often against innocent civilians.

This one is really not like the others because A) communism is a good thing, and B) you are describing the methods used to end apartheid.

Communism has failed everywhere it has been tried and has brought nothing but suffering and misery. Including courtesy of Nelson Mendela. Terrorist with good publicity.

Communism wasn't even tried in South Africa as privatization is required to secure the IMF loans needed to rebuild the country. This both prevented land reforms and left huge amounts of South Africa's national recourses in the hands of foreign power. Blaming communism for the problems of Africa is quite frankly insane as the almost universally come from colonialism, which basically never ended, just changed from foreign states to foreign companies.

Being a war crimes apologist is still pretty bad. But then I don't know that much about his policies beyond his rather cringeworthy attempt to promote reproduction in the populace.

He also wanted to remilitarize Japan. Which given his apologia for Imperial Japan probably means he wanted to do some foreign adventurism, but I cannot confirm that.

Maybe he wanted to remilitarize Japan because maybe having an expansionist and highly militarised China on their border with clear ambitions towards their territorial waters has made Japan a little edgy? Besides, how long are they meant to suffer for WW2 anyway? Germany is under no restrictions at all. Italy is under no restrictions at all. So why should they be?

I never really looked into it but I always thought it was odd that Japan was basically restricted in their military where as Germany wasn't after WW2. I suppose it's because of the Soviets.

US has maintained at least one permanent carrier in Japan for a very long time. Before the USS George Washington was stationed there, Japan and the US maintained a conventional aircraft carrier instead of a nuclear one.

[Draco Dracul]

I never really looked into it but I always thought it was odd that Japan was basically restricted in their military where as Germany wasn't after WW2. I suppose it's because of the Soviets.

US has maintained at least one permanent carrier in Japan for a very long time. Before the USS George Washington was stationed there, Japan and the US maintained a conventional aircraft carrier instead of a nuclear one.

I think the Soviets were a big reason, to the point that Nazi Generals were allowed to write the history of the Werhmacht leading to many myths about Nazi Germany that persist to this day. I think the other reason is that Germany was not only split between east and west, but also the historic center of German militarism, Prussia, being permanently sundered.

[McAvoy]

I never really looked into it but I always thought it was odd that Japan was basically restricted in their military where as Germany wasn't after WW2. I suppose it's because of the Soviets.

US has maintained at least one permanent carrier in Japan for a very long time. Before the USS George Washington was stationed there, Japan and the US maintained a conventional aircraft carrier instead of a nuclear one.

I think the Soviets were a big reason, to the point that Nazi Generals were allowed to write the history of the Werhmacht leading to many myths about Nazi Germany that persist to this day. I think the other reason is that Germany was not only split between east and west, but also the historic center of German militarism, Prussia, being permanently sundered.

I am not that familiar with post WW2 Germany. So I am not familiar with these myths you speak of.

Yeah the history of Prussia/Germany does have a proud tradition. One reason why they embraced Nazism. That they technically didn't lose the first World War.

But yeah. East and West Germany was practically the border between communist state and the rest of Europe.

[Draco Dracul]

I am not that familiar with post WW2 Germany. So I am not familiar with these myths you speak of.

The big ones are the clean Weracht (that the German army didn't actively participate in Nazi atrocities), the idea that the general public was ignorant of the Holocaust, the idea that the Nazis were super close to victory when they basically didn't have a hope of actually winning, and the biggest of all the myth of fascist efficiency.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I never really looked into it but I always thought it was odd that Japan was basically restricted in their military where as Germany wasn't after WW2. I suppose it's because of the Soviets.

US has maintained at least one permanent carrier in Japan for a very long time. Before the USS George Washington was stationed there, Japan and the US maintained a conventional aircraft carrier instead of a nuclear one.

I think the Soviets were a big reason, to the point that Nazi Generals were allowed to write the history of the Werhmacht leading to many myths about Nazi Germany that persist to this day. I think the other reason is that Germany was not only split between east and west, but also the historic center of German militarism, Prussia, being permanently sundered.

I am not that familiar with post WW2 Germany. So I am not familiar with these myths you speak of.

Yeah the history of Prussia/Germany does have a proud tradition. One reason why they embraced Nazism. That they technically didn't lose the first World War.

But yeah. East and West Germany was practically the border between communist state and the rest of Europe.

Germany pretty much did lose WWI I thought. Like quite specifically.

[McAvoy]

I am not that familiar with post WW2 Germany. So I am not familiar with these myths you speak of.

The big ones are the clean Weracht (that the German army didn't actively participate in Nazi atrocities), the idea that the general public was ignorant of the Holocaust, the idea that the Nazis were super close to victory when they basically didn't have a hope of actually winning, and the biggest of all the myth of fascist efficiency.

Yeah the Nazi's pretty much could not win the war once they invaded Russia. I am of the opinion that they would have lost even if the US didn't join the war. It would have been far longer but eventually the Soviets would have beaten them.

The big issue is oil. Not much is talked about it. Germany really had none and relied on outside supply to get it. Like Japan.

The only time they could have the won the war was before they invaded Russia.

The US joining just accelerated their defeat. It was generally well known at the time the US was a industrial superpower.

As far as Germany losing WW1. Yes they technically did. They surrendered in the end. They did it really to prevent the allies from really invading Germany. But that was the big argument post War that led to the rise of Nazism was that Germany got hit too hard with reparations when they really felt they didn't lose thd war.

[Draco Dracul]

As far as Germany losing WW1. Yes they technically did. They surrendered in the end. They did it really to prevent the allies from really invading Germany. But that was the big argument post War that led to the rise of Nazism was that Germany got hit too hard with reparations when they really felt they didn't lose thd war.

Honestly the biggest thing that lead to the rise of Nazism was the murder of most of the leftwing leadership by the far right Friekorps with the approval of the social Democrats that sieved power as the war ended.

The Friekorps themselves would attempt a coup just over a year latter, but thier leadership wouldn't even be stripped of thier pensions.

[Beastro]

US has maintained at least one permanent carrier in Japan for a very long time. Before the USS George Washington was stationed there, Japan and the US maintained a conventional aircraft carrier instead of a nuclear one.

The US needed German forces in Europe, they didn't need Japanese forces in the Pacific and East Asia. Also, Germany wasn't a major historical rival of the US, Japan was. Germany had a land focused military, Japan's was naval which could interfere with US interests far more. During the USNs fleet problems from the 20s to 40s they all revolved around the only possible nation the US would go to war with, Japan. It annoyed the Japanese greatly until they got their ambassador to complain and Japan was relabeled "Orange" in later plans (Hence where War Plan Orange came from).

They were very dead set on breaking Japan, especially making sure that they'd never have a second go of things like Germany was allowed to do.

Communism simply isn't compatible with human nature. It could be made to work, if society were composed entirely of genius saints.

But any system could be made to work under those conditions.

That applies to every ideology.

Every ideology draws a nice little box around what it likes in the world and then says the rest that doesn't fit inside the box should be eliminated. The problem is, more of the world sits outside of the box than it does inside of it.

[McAvoy]

US has maintained at least one permanent carrier in Japan for a very long time. Before the USS George Washington was stationed there, Japan and the US maintained a conventional aircraft carrier instead of a nuclear one.

The US needed German forces in Europe, they didn't need Japanese forces in the Pacific and East Asia. Also, Germany wasn't a major historical rival of the US, Japan was. Germany had a land focused military, Japan's was naval which could interfere with US interests far more. During the USNs fleet problems from the 20s to 40s they all revolved around the only possible nation the US would go to war with, Japan. It annoyed the Japanese greatly until they got their ambassador to complain and Japan was relabeled "Orange" in later plans (Hence where War Plan Orange came from).

They were very dead set on breaking Japan, especially making sure that they'd never have a second go of things like Germany was allowed to do.

Communism simply isn't compatible with human nature. It could be made to work, if society were composed entirely of genius saints.

But any system could be made to work under those conditions.

That applies to every ideology.

Every ideology draws a nice little box around what it likes in the world and then says the rest that doesn't fit inside the box should be eliminated. The problem is, more of the world sits outside of the box than it does inside of it.

Japan only really became a major concern for the US in WW1. During that time they were allies with the British and the Washington Treaty, the US made it one of their points to break it. That and get a naval reduction why also provided a warship ratio between the British, the US and Japan. The US at the time was not capable of taking on both the British and Japan at the same time.

Do you not think having a strong Japanese Navy who are allies with the US during the Cold War would have suited the US? Yes it would have.

But there were so many factors with the US and Japan post-war. There was still an element of racism when it came to the Japanese. There was still a level of distrust with them and some level of anger from Pearl Harbor to a smaller extent.

They could trust Germany, a white European nation which many Americans could trace their families to. They could trust Germany would form a democratic nation of some kind like their neighbors.

It made sense for the US to play war games against Japan even if they were peaceful to each other. War games were always against the most likely opponent. Whether that was Germany or even the British at one point.

[Draco Dracul]

US has maintained at least one permanent carrier in Japan for a very long time. Before the USS George Washington was stationed there, Japan and the US maintained a conventional aircraft carrier instead of a nuclear one.

The US needed German forces in Europe, they didn't need Japanese forces in the Pacific and East Asia.

Even that's debatable as Stalin wasn't really interested in another war in Europe.