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Darth Wedgius wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:14 am
Some consider Milo racist because he compared Leslie Jones to a gorilla, but I think he was just calling her fat and ugly.
Unless he's lived under a rock his entire life, there is no way he wouldn't know the racist implications of what he said.
Darth Wedgius wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:14 am
This whole parade is probably a troll to expose some people consider double standards on the left (similar to the "it's OK to be white" flyers), or to provoke silly outrage (similar to the OK symbol being a "white power" gesture). Honestly, the best thing the people who feel outraged by the existence of this parade could do is to ignore it, or to join in and have fun, effectively somewhat co-opting it.
So what you're saying is that it's a move to try and further radicalize people by counting on the soundbite heavy media to not give the context they've created? Because both of those were deliberate attempts to funnel more people into white nationalism.
No, that was to get the left to react in a way that exposed double standards. 4chan chose the most innocuous phrase they could - not "white is better" or "whites for4v4r," just "it's OK to be white." And people freaked out, as expected. Yes, some people white supremacists spread it, but it wasn't just the white supremacists, and even a broken clock is right twice a day. Unless it's digital. Or some of the hands fell off. Or something like that.
Darth Wedgius wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:27 pm
How is the system actively working against LGBTQ? Because transsexuals can't join the military? because men who sleep with men can't donate blood? Because Indiana Jones is straight?
And let me list the things society has given me for being straight:
OK, done.
You understand how systemic bigotry works? It's that its exactly that. I might not be codified into law like jim crow but it very much exists. A person in power who hates what you are can and will make your life hell. When the choice is changing jobs every other week or enduring abusive superiors in a lot of cases then you start to see why we have a parade.
At least with the Irish you could argue they are a minority who at one time faced a fair amount of bigotry in many of the same ways and while it might be basically forgotten by now it still happened.
Nobody is "Proud to be straight" This is people who are "Proud to be not gay but we're totally not saying we hate the gays we're just going to yell how not gay we are totally not as an obvious troll move." There is zero reason to do this other than being passive aggressive jerks.
I see post from kids all the time because their parents are bigots and they are scared out of their minds about being kicked out or shunned. Far too often it ends with both of these things.
So your systemic bigotry is that a lot of people don't like gays? OK, that happens, and few people hate straights. I don't see that as "the system," but as a lot of people acting as individuals, but I obviously can't prove there is no vast, hidden conspiracy.
You're assuming the motivations of the parade organizers and then attacking those motives. If they hated gays then why get a gay man as the Grand Marshall? Maybe this is to annoy not gays but progressive snowflakes?
Darth Wedgius wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:14 am
Some consider Milo racist because he compared Leslie Jones to a gorilla, but I think he was just calling her fat and ugly.
Unless he's lived under a rock his entire life, there is no way he wouldn't know the racist implications of what he said.
That makes him insensitive, not racist, IMHO.
Generally speaking using racial slurs against people is something racists do. And it's not even a common insult in context as gorilla are not associated with being fat.
Darth Wedgius wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:14 am
This whole parade is probably a troll to expose some people consider double standards on the left (similar to the "it's OK to be white" flyers), or to provoke silly outrage (similar to the OK symbol being a "white power" gesture). Honestly, the best thing the people who feel outraged by the existence of this parade could do is to ignore it, or to join in and have fun, effectively somewhat co-opting it.
So what you're saying is that it's a move to try and further radicalize people by counting on the soundbite heavy media to not give the context they've created? Because both of those were deliberate attempts to funnel more people into white nationalism.
No, that was to get the left to react in a way that exposed double standards. 4chan chose the most innocuous phrase they could - not "white is better" or "whites for4v4r," just "it's OK to be white." And people freaked out, as expected. Yes, some people white supremacists spread it, but it wasn't just the white supremacists, and even a broken clock is right twice a day. Unless it's digital. Or some of the hands fell off. Or something like that.
[/quote]
The germ of the idea came from white supremecists, so that they could play innocent, just like with the milk thing or Pepe or any of the other "we'll make a dogwhistle and let the media remove context from it" ploys they've been doing.
Darth Wedgius wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:14 am
Some consider Milo racist because he compared Leslie Jones to a gorilla, but I think he was just calling her fat and ugly.
Unless he's lived under a rock his entire life, there is no way he wouldn't know the racist implications of what he said.
That makes him insensitive, not racist, IMHO.
Generally speaking using racial slurs against people is something racists do. And it's not even a common insult in context as gorilla are not associated with being fat.
And saying things that could be interpreted as racist is something a lot of people do. Unless you know his intent, you don't know which one he meant.
Darth Wedgius wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:14 am
This whole parade is probably a troll to expose some people consider double standards on the left (similar to the "it's OK to be white" flyers), or to provoke silly outrage (similar to the OK symbol being a "white power" gesture). Honestly, the best thing the people who feel outraged by the existence of this parade could do is to ignore it, or to join in and have fun, effectively somewhat co-opting it.
So what you're saying is that it's a move to try and further radicalize people by counting on the soundbite heavy media to not give the context they've created? Because both of those were deliberate attempts to funnel more people into white nationalism.
No, that was to get the left to react in a way that exposed double standards. 4chan chose the most innocuous phrase they could - not "white is better" or "whites for4v4r," just "it's OK to be white." And people freaked out, as expected. Yes, some people white supremacists spread it, but it wasn't just the white supremacists, and even a broken clock is right twice a day. Unless it's digital. Or some of the hands fell off. Or something like that.
The germ of the idea came from white supremecists, so that they could play innocent, just like with the milk thing or Pepe or any of the other "we'll make a dogwhistle and let the media remove context from it" ploys they've been doing.
You didn't give evidence that white supremacists originated the idea, and, regardless, the people I saw in favor of that were intending to do exactly what I said. Your dogwhistle argument again assumes that you knew their intention.
Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:20 am
Generally speaking using racial slurs against people is something racists do. And it's not even a common insult in context as gorilla are not associated with being fat.
And saying things that could be interpreted as racist is something a lot of people do. Unless you know his intent, you don't know which one he meant.
His intent can be assumed because it's a non-standard insult given the situation unless the racist connotations of insult were meant. You might have a point if it was used to refer to a muscular black man, as gorilla is often used as an insult to musclebound men of perceived low intelligence regardless of race. That is not he case here as gorillas aren't associated with being fat, and there are a plethora of non-racist insults for an ugly woman, pig, dog, hog, whale, etc.
Darth Wedgius wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:27 am
You didn't give evidence that white supremacists originated the idea, and, regardless, the people I saw in favor of that were intending to do exactly what I said. Your dogwhistle argument again assumes that you knew their intention.
You do realize that context matters, right? Like there is a big difference between a Hindu displaying a swastika and a non-Hindu white person displaying a swastika.
Draco you're not really getting the point about 4chan baiting the left. I don't think it really matters in this case the distinction between reactionaries like gamergate and nazis like neonazis, but the point is to use generic gestures like a parade or an A-OK symbol to get the left to object to something generic like a parade or an A-OK symbol to make them look reactive on a level where commonfolk think the general left is stupid.
Wegius isn't saying that there's no white supremacists behind the initiative. He's saying that it's less like an ISIS recruiting agenda and more like people trolling Shia LaBeouf at his protest.
Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:20 am
Generally speaking using racial slurs against people is something racists do. And it's not even a common insult in context as gorilla are not associated with being fat.
And saying things that could be interpreted as racist is something a lot of people do. Unless you know his intent, you don't know which one he meant.
His intent can be assumed because it's a non-standard insult given the situation unless the racist connotations of insult were meant. You might have a point if it was used to refer to a muscular black man, as gorilla is often used as an insult to musclebound men of perceived low intelligence regardless of race. That is not he case here as gorillas aren't associated with being fat, and there are a plethora of non-racist insults for an ugly woman, pig, dog, hog, whale, etc.
Darth Wedgius wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:27 am
You didn't give evidence that white supremacists originated the idea, and, regardless, the people I saw in favor of that were intending to do exactly what I said. Your dogwhistle argument again assumes that you knew their intention.
You do realize that context matters, right? Like there is a big difference between a Hindu displaying a swastika and a non-Hindu white person displaying a swastika.
Swastika isn't even originally Nazi symbol. They only took it and turned it side ways. It has meanings in other cultures like being symbol of good luck. Sure to ignorant majority it has become Nazi symbol regardless is it side ways or not but that is why they are called ignorant. As Finnish I can tell that during Continuation War (it's considered separate from WWII) Finnish Air Force used swastika because it also happens to be Ancient Finnish symbol.
"In the embrace of the great Nurgle, I am no longer afraid, for with His pestilential favour I have become that which I once most feared: Death.."
- Kulvain Hestarius of the Death Guard
I actually saw this post by a former marine which was way better at explain it than my version.
If you think “straight pride” is a good idea, then you think the “pride” in “Pride parade” means “proud of being gay.”
False.
It means “proud of living as who I am and overcoming adversity.”
Now try to apply that to a bunch of angry straight white guys.
Make sense now?
You don't face the same kinds of adversity as a straight person. You do not have people in positions of power using their authority to try and destroy your life. This is why I personally beg every transperson to be forward about that before going on a date with someone as awkward as it feels it at least you won't be within stabbing distance and you really don't want to be.
I am the one who requested Chuck review Kannazuki No Miko. (under an old alias)
I count it among the most despicable things I have ever done to another human being and I'm sorry.
Rasp wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:56 am
I actually saw this post by a former marine which was way better at explain it than my version.
If you think “straight pride” is a good idea, then you think the “pride” in “Pride parade” means “proud of being gay.”
False.
It means “proud of living as who I am and overcoming adversity.”
Now try to apply that to a bunch of angry straight white guys.
Make sense now?
You don't face the same kinds of adversity as a straight person. You do not have people in positions of power using their authority to try and destroy your life. This is why I personally beg every transperson to be forward about that before going on a date with someone as awkward as it feels it at least you won't be within stabbing distance and you really don't want to be.
I get being proud of who you are, but how does that translate to walking down the street wearing leather and pvc? A lot of people who attend gay pride seem happy to open themselves up to becoming stereotypes.
Freddie Mercury is reputed to have denounced Pride for that very reason, although make of that what you will given what he used to wear.
