Legalized Child Brides still a thing in the USA

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Admiral X
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Re: Legalized Child Brides still a thing in the USA

Post by Admiral X »

Fuzzy Necromancer wrote: Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:28 am Nobody even ASKED somebody to bake a frelling cake for the child bride weddings!
Image
You brought up that hypothetical so you could play devil's advocate and go "ha ha, silly man doesn't understand moral relativism!"
Actually, I'm not the one who brought it up - I've just attempted to explain it better for you, while noting the style of argument used by those claiming to be "progressive" typically use to shift the argument to suit their own narrative. I'm honestly not sure if this is a psychological thing and you really just can't see the argument for what it is, or if you just won't admit to it because it means you might have to concede a point. Which, speaking of moral relativism - isn't that more of a "progressive" thing? But really, that's only a detail of what the main point is, which is that people should have the right to choose.
None of this answers the question of "how and why do we still have CHILD BRIDES in the year of somebody's lord 2018?
:roll: "It's the CURRENT YEAR you guys!" The answer to your question is right there in the article. This is something of an interesting topic in part because Europe is having much the same problem with child brides being brought over by refugees/immigrants, and having to walk on eggshells about it because the "progressives" over there are yelling about that whole relativism thing. Which makes me wonder if the only reason this is a problem with some people is because of the religion involved.
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Darth Wedgius
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Re: Legalized Child Brides still a thing in the USA

Post by Darth Wedgius »

OK, Fuzzy, I think you're not going to understand my point. That's OK; I might not be explaining it very well. In the interests of your blood pressure, I'll move on.

As far as how we can still have child brides (or grooms), you might ask the ACLU. They opposed California's SB273, and it's had to continue forward in watered-down form. Texas has had better luck, though.
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Re: Legalized Child Brides still a thing in the USA

Post by Fuzzy Necromancer »

Well, its not exactly cake, but the scenario you described seems a lot less hypothetical now:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/photog ... ast-134354
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Darth Wedgius
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Re: Legalized Child Brides still a thing in the USA

Post by Darth Wedgius »

Fuzzy Necromancer wrote: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:44 pm Well, its not exactly cake, but the scenario you described seems a lot less hypothetical now:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/photog ... ast-134354
Good find, though I wish it had stayed more hypothetical. :( Still, a photographer got some useful physical exercise from it.

And Turkey has better laws against marrying children than the U.S. does. :oops:
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Re: Legalized Child Brides still a thing in the USA

Post by Fuzzy Necromancer »

Darth Wedgius wrote: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:57 pm
Fuzzy Necromancer wrote: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:44 pm Well, its not exactly cake, but the scenario you described seems a lot less hypothetical now:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/photog ... ast-134354
Good find, though I wish it had stayed more hypothetical. :( Still, a photographer got some useful physical exercise from it.

And Turkey has better laws against marrying children than the U.S. does. :oops:
Eeyup. So why did you bring up the wedding cake hypothetical? I finally think I might have gotten hold of the wrong end of the stick with you, but I'm wary.
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Re: Legalized Child Brides still a thing in the USA

Post by Darth Wedgius »

Fuzzy Necromancer wrote: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:52 am
Darth Wedgius wrote: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:57 pm
Fuzzy Necromancer wrote: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:44 pm Well, its not exactly cake, but the scenario you described seems a lot less hypothetical now:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/photog ... ast-134354
Good find, though I wish it had stayed more hypothetical. :( Still, a photographer got some useful physical exercise from it.

And Turkey has better laws against marrying children than the U.S. does. :oops:
Eeyup. So why did you bring up the wedding cake hypothetical? I finally think I might have gotten hold of the wrong end of the stick with you, but I'm wary.
Maybe, but you and I honestly disagree on a lot. For instance I believe in treating people according to their individual actions where possible, and you're more apt to apply collective responsibility to some groups.

Individual liberty is important to me, and I saw this as an opportunity to make a point about it in a way that a liberal might understand on an emotional level. I've heard more than once (from left and right, to be fair) that if you perform an economic activity A, you need to do it for any legal activity. Child brides are an exception to that for everyone I've run into.

That usually gets a "how dare you compare X and Y" response,which misses the point,but once in a while there's a flash of light in there.
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Re: Legalized Child Brides still a thing in the USA

Post by AllanO »

Darth Wedgius wrote: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:30 pm Individual liberty is important to me, and I saw this as an opportunity to make a point about it in a way that a liberal might understand on an emotional level. I've heard more than once (from left and right, to be fair) that if you perform an economic activity A, you need to do it for any legal activity. Child brides are an exception to that for everyone I've run into.
But clearly there are way more exceptions than that, given we are currently in the midst of a controversy where people have been denying service at restaurants to members of the Drumpf administration, people wearing MAGA hats and so on.

Clearly there are a huge swath of people who would generally be called liberals who feel entitled to refuse service on the basis of a legal activity (some particular political position, affiliation or position). I am pretty sure plenty of those called conservatives have similar reactions from time to time. The most common distinction I have heard tends to be whether you are discriminating on the basis of an involuntary status (race, gender, nationality, sexual orientation etc.) versus discriminating in terms of a voluntary action (political affiliation, favourite boy band etc.). Your discrimination should be about what they do not what they are, so things are often summarized. There are of course endless disagreements about what is a status versus voluntary action and this is in part a moral distinction, some may say its greatly to someone's credit to choose to be an Englishman, others may deny you have any control over what boy band you like its just an inseparable part of your identity, so there is some comparison of X and Y going on when we make these distinctions (on this way of slicing the cantaloupe). Not sure if the distinction holds up for every case and exception.

Also, there are other factors, like how do you even know about the objectionable activity (are you spying on your customers), how tailored to the customer demands your goods or services are, how vital is your good or service, how exclusive are you (do you have the local monopoly on X) and so on.

I think its trickier than people would like to admit.

----

I have no real insight into the persistence of child brides other than it is an illustration of the power of inertia in life and law. It seems like there is a really simple legislative fix for legal child marriages (ban'em). Presumably underground illegal child marriage would still be a problem..
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