Germany Neo-Nazis march by the thousands...

[Robovski]

Yugoslavia staying together after WWII was all General Tito - when he was gone the writing was on the wall.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Allow me to impart on you all something; something which I imagine a lot of Brexit voters, Trump voters, Le Penn voters, whoever it was that went against Merkel voters among others already know: none of this would have happened if the governments of Europe and America had shown more respect toward the dissenting voices over the last two decades instead of branding them racists and ignoring them. And now here we are, we now live in a world where moderates are moving towards the far extremes because they are the only ones that feel as if they are listening to them.

And no, I am not endorsing a resurgence of the Nazis or any other similar group. I am endorsing the hope that we will one day have a government that listens to the concerns of all of its people before things spiral out of control, because like it or not, those with serious concerns about how our countries are run now number to the point that they can and are influencing elections. These are dangerous times imo, the sorts of times that historians look back on as touchpaper moments.

So you're saying that people are only joining racist hate groups because we didn't listen to their concerns enough. You know how many groups are ignored, silenced, and called things much more worse than "racist", and still didn't decide to start goose-stepping?

[LittleRaven]

You know how many groups are ignored, silenced, and called things much more worse than "racist", and still didn't decide to start goose-stepping?

That's not very meaningful, though, since the dominant cultural group is the only one that ever has the OPTION of goose-stepping. If any minority group ever tries it, they get shut down QUICK.

Blacks can get away with saying that they might just have to kill a whole lot of white people in South Africa, because blacks control the government, and whites don't really have any recourse in that country. When the Black Panthers even hinted at that here, the FBI prompted buried them. Jews can openly call for the annihilation of the Palestinians in Israel, because they control the government. Any Jews that tried that in France would find themselves getting an uncomfortable amount of official attention in no time.

If there's an enlightened group of humans that has managed to both gain power and never abuse it, I haven't heard of them.

[Karha of Honor]

"The majority of people in Germany want an open, cosmopolitan, respectful Germany, where people encounter one another with respect, and it is catastrophic what people can do to one another," Maas said.

"cosmopolitan" They said it not me.

Yeah and we know all why you dislike countries being cosmopolitan.

Tolerant is possible, but truly cosmopolitan? Doubt it. Certain cultures would have to give up certain things to make it work.

[clearspira]

Allow me to impart on you all something; something which I imagine a lot of Brexit voters, Trump voters, Le Penn voters, whoever it was that went against Merkel voters among others already know: none of this would have happened if the governments of Europe and America had shown more respect toward the dissenting voices over the last two decades instead of branding them racists and ignoring them. And now here we are, we now live in a world where moderates are moving towards the far extremes because they are the only ones that feel as if they are listening to them.

And no, I am not endorsing a resurgence of the Nazis or any other similar group. I am endorsing the hope that we will one day have a government that listens to the concerns of all of its people before things spiral out of control, because like it or not, those with serious concerns about how our countries are run now number to the point that they can and are influencing elections. These are dangerous times imo, the sorts of times that historians look back on as touchpaper moments.

So you're saying that people are only joining racist hate groups because we didn't listen to their concerns enough. You know how many groups are ignored, silenced, and called things much more worse than "racist", and still didn't decide to start goose-stepping?

I never said the only people, I said that it was driving up the numbers. And it is.

[unknownsample]

"Interesting times." "Touchpaper moments." Sometimes I'd like to spend the next 40 years hiding under my bed.

A couple bits to toss onto the pile.

I've seen, more than once, German laws against denying the holocaust used as evidence to deny the holocaust.

Second, Yugoslavia. They got along decently well when there were people with guns insisting that they get along. But it didn't actually solve the problems. When the wall came down, decades-old tensions bubbled up, the term "ethnic cleansing" entered the popular vocabulary, and a lot of blood was spilled until NATO bombing brought a halt to a genocide.

One thing about free speech is that sometimes it allows old wounds (for hurts real or imagined) to drain instead of festering. We can only control what people say openly, and if an authoritarian code is enforced upon someone, are they really likely to be sympathetic to the government-sanctioned POV?

Making possession of an unlicensed mimeograph machine a felony didn't stop the samizdats. If people say stupid things out in the open (and a lot of racial conspiracy theories out there on the left and right are just this side of flat earth on the crazy-meter), at least other people can point out the stupid.

If only we let people say they want to ethnic cleanse other people then there would be no ethnic cleansing.

[unknownsample]

Allow me to impart on you all something; something which I imagine a lot of Brexit voters, Trump voters, Le Penn voters, whoever it was that went against Merkel voters among others already know: none of this would have happened if the governments of Europe and America had shown more respect toward the dissenting voices over the last two decades instead of branding them racists and ignoring them. And now here we are, we now live in a world where moderates are moving towards the far extremes because they are the only ones that feel as if they are listening to them.

And no, I am not endorsing a resurgence of the Nazis or any other similar group. I am endorsing the hope that we will one day have a government that listens to the concerns of all of its people before things spiral out of control, because like it or not, those with serious concerns about how our countries are run now number to the point that they can and are influencing elections. These are dangerous times imo, the sorts of times that historians look back on as touchpaper moments.

By kicking out the forrins.

Serious question: Do you want this situation to change? I mean REALLY change not just put a sticking plaster over the problem? Then can the strawman arguments and actually start being more constructive with your dialogue. Because right now, you are exactly the type of enabler that I am talking about.

If they were branded racists then they weren't being ignored.

[LittleRaven]

If they were branded racists then they weren't being ignored.

I don't know what country you hail from, but here the US, calling someone a racist is not a method for constructively opening a dialog with them, or making them feel like their concerns are being validated.

It's used as a method to shut down debate.

[Darth Wedgius]

"Interesting times." "Touchpaper moments." Sometimes I'd like to spend the next 40 years hiding under my bed.

A couple bits to toss onto the pile.

I've seen, more than once, German laws against denying the holocaust used as evidence to deny the holocaust.

Second, Yugoslavia. They got along decently well when there were people with guns insisting that they get along. But it didn't actually solve the problems. When the wall came down, decades-old tensions bubbled up, the term "ethnic cleansing" entered the popular vocabulary, and a lot of blood was spilled until NATO bombing brought a halt to a genocide.

One thing about free speech is that sometimes it allows old wounds (for hurts real or imagined) to drain instead of festering. We can only control what people say openly, and if an authoritarian code is enforced upon someone, are they really likely to be sympathetic to the government-sanctioned POV?

Making possession of an unlicensed mimeograph machine a felony didn't stop the samizdats. If people say stupid things out in the open (and a lot of racial conspiracy theories out there on the left and right are just this side of flat earth on the crazy-meter), at least other people can point out the stupid.

If only we let people say they want to ethnic cleanse other people then there would be no ethnic cleansing.

Something I never said. That would make it a straw man, wouldn't it?

[Worffan101]

If they were branded racists then they weren't being ignored.

I don't know what country you hail from, but here the US, calling someone a racist is not a method for constructively opening a dialog with them, or making them feel like their concerns are being validated.

It's used as a method to shut down debate.

Yeah, but if I see somebody being racist, I'm going to call a spade a spade.

Likewise, if I see someone spouting that bullshit "POTUS MAGA kek remove kebab hail Hitler but only ironically lol trigger the libs" alt-right crap, I'm going to call them goddamn Nazis because the entire POINT of the alt-right is to be rebranded Nazis.

I mean, seriously...Sometimes, you should just call a spade a spade.