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G-Man wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:45 am
There's a reason why typhus and tuberculosis are making a comeback.
Beyond draconian health care costs and increasing polarization of income with reduced mobility between the poor middle class and wealthy of those already here that is. Don't blame the illegals for this, they are no more responsible than those already here in the USA in this regard.
I agree we should detain those overstaying their visa, and asylum seekers crossing through whole other countries to enter the US should be applying from one of those countries they passed through (and perhaps applying with those countries).
There's a reason why typhus and tuberculosis are making a comeback.
Anti-vaxxers?
Re: Overstaying their visas
I think there's a large issue with people who just fundamentally don't understand immigration or why people come here. For example, a large number of people work here at minimum wage because the money goes farther in their home country and they send it back. There's this weird idea that this tide of people who desperately want to come here.
They exist, they're called refugees but there's a reason the USA has laws for them and their protection.
To prevent something like what happened with WW2.
Last edited by CharlesPhipps on Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
G-Man wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:45 am
I probably should not have brought the wall into it.
Where I am calling the Democrats hypocrites is that in the arguments about the southern border, a constant refrain I hear is that we should not be so concerned about the border because "most illegal aliens are actually visa overstays."
Yet when push comes to shove, they do not actually want to do anything about the visa overstayers either.
Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:58 pm
That's not hypocrisy. Saying the wall won't stop illegal immigration, and that hard working people who have broken no law and committed no crime should be given a path to permanent residency or even citizenship are not incompatible ideas.
If you are here illegally, you are breaking laws. If you are working illegally, you are breaking laws. Lots of identity, etc., laws are broken by illegal aliens. Many of those laws (identity theft) are criminal.
g to hamstring it as much as possible. All because they want to import more Democrat voters.
The majority opinion of Arizona vs. United States disagrees with you, the act of being in the US without authorization or documentation is not in and of itself a crime. Also statistically immigrants both legal and illegal are less likely to commit crimes than US Citizens.
I did not say that being here illegally was a crime. I said that it was BREAKING A LAW. You said "who have broken no law."
Breaking a law while committing no crime is a contradiction in terms.
There's a reason why typhus and tuberculosis are making a comeback.
Anti-vaxxers?
Re: Overstaying their visas
I think there's a large issue with people who just fundamentally don't understand immigration or why people come here. For example, a large number of people work here at minimum wage because the money goes farther in their home country and they send it back. There's this weird idea that this tide of people who desperately want to come here.
They exist, they're called refugees but there's a reason the USA has laws for them and their protection.
To prevent something like what happened with WW2.
Uh, no. Coming here because you can earn more money is not a legally valid reason for refugee or asylee status. That makes you an economic migrant. It is not the same as being an asylee or a refugee.
And I am sorry, but allowing large numbers of people to settle here from other countries causes disruption for the host country.
And no, anti-vaxxers are not the reason for typhus or tuberculosis outbreaks, as there is no available vaccine for typhus and there is not widepsread vaccination against tuberculosis (and the vaccine that exists is of limited usefulness).
"You say I'm a dreamer/we're two of a kind/looking for some perfect world/we know we'll never find" - Thompson Twins
Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:12 am
Breaking a law while committing no crime is a contradiction in terms.
No, there are criminal laws and there are civil laws. You do not actually think that the decision in Arizona vs. United States was saying that coming here without authorization was not against the law, do you? The decision was that it was a civil violation, not in and of itself a criminal one. But it is breaking a law.
Not all violations of the law are criminal. Traffic violations, for example, are mostly civil violations.
"You say I'm a dreamer/we're two of a kind/looking for some perfect world/we know we'll never find" - Thompson Twins
CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:22 pm
Again, it boils down a lot to a fundamental difference of opinion.
For a lot of people the idea of THOSE PEOPLE entering the country and settling down is HORRIBLE. SHOCKING! TERRIBLE! ILLEGAL!
Others are, "Who gives a shit."
It's a bit like the War on Pot. The pearl clutching horror is against people completely apathetic to it, to the outright angry its even a law.
Letting anyone and everyone in is not acceptable, and being apathetic to the general health of the country is not a great stance.
As for your pot comparison, states that have legalized are already facing the negative consequences. Revenues are down from projections because the heavy tax burden has kept the industry in the black market still, and DUI's are way up.
In the same way, immigrants, legal or illegal, will suppress wages, even if they are legal and on salary, simply by being there and flooding the labor market. Supply VS Demand.
Antiboyscout wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:06 pm
Letting anyone and everyone in is not acceptable, and being apathetic to the general health of the country is not a great stance.
Very well. I am very non-apathetic to the health of this nation and believe strongly we need to let more people in as well as reduce penalties for coming in without procedure.
Maybe a small fine and another one imposed while they remain.
CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:45 pm
Very well. I am very non-apathetic to the health of this nation and believe strongly we need to let more people in as well as reduce penalties for coming in without procedure.
Maybe a small fine and another one imposed while they remain.
What benefit do they provide that offsets the wage suppression and cultural conflict?
(Mexicans are the worst for this. Because Mexico is right next to the US, mexicans don't sacrifice much coming over and are not isolated from their old home. Both inhibit assimilation.)
Antiboyscout wrote: ↑Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:56 pmWhat benefit do they provide that offsets the wage suppression and cultural conflict?
(Mexicans are the worst for this. Because Mexico is right next to the US, mexicans don't sacrifice much coming over and are not isolated from their old home. Both inhibit assimilation.)
Before I answer, may I ask what you consider to be the cultural conflict?
