Trans "women" athletes have advantages over cis women

[clearspira]

Question: what is stopping countries from just fielding whole teams of ''women'' if they have such a physical advantage?

[LittleRaven]

Well until VERY recently the trans population has been infinitesimal. It's still very small. But the difference in physical strength between the sexes is such that even with a very, VERY small population, we're starting to see transwomen climb to the top in a number of sports.

That number is only going to go up. Men are bigger, stronger, and faster than women - and they stay that way even when they transition.

[clearspira]

Well until VERY recently the trans population has been infinitesimal. It's still very small. But the difference in physical strength between the sexes is such that even with a very, VERY small population, we're starting to see transwomen climb to the top in a number of sports.

That number is only going to go up. Men are bigger, stronger, and faster than women - and they stay that way even when they transition.

Not that I have much of an opinion on the subject, but this is why the trans community and feminists (sometimes known as TERF) often collide. There are those that think that because transwomen are bigger, stronger and faster than cis women - along with not being able to bleed and get pregnant - that they are still benefiting from the patriarchy and will never know what it is to be as vulnerable as a woman (vulnerable is a word i've seen them use, its not mine).

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Well until VERY recently the trans population has been infinitesimal. It's still very small. But the difference in physical strength between the sexes is such that even with a very, VERY small population, we're starting to see transwomen climb to the top in a number of sports.

That number is only going to go up. Men are bigger, stronger, and faster than women - and they stay that way even when they transition.

Not that I have much of an opinion on the subject, but this is why the trans community and feminists (sometimes known as TERF) often collide. There are those that think that because transwomen are bigger, stronger and faster than cis women - along with not being able to bleed and get pregnant - that they are still benefiting from the patriarchy and will never know what it is to be as vulnerable as a woman (vulnerable is a word i've seen them use, its not mine).

I think another issue is that as a former man tanswomen didn't face the same issues from society.

Though, that's not the issue in the sports field as far as I can tell, I just think that may be the more principal concern among them.

[Madner Kami]

Sarcasm

Hard to tell apart from arguments this year.

I hear ya, I hear ya...

[Darth Wedgius]

Question: what is stopping countries from just fielding whole teams of ''women'' if they have such a physical advantage?

In some sports it might not help much. From the linked article, it may not help that much, if at all, in races.

But if five male basketball players choose to identify as women for a year, they'd probably do very well in the equivalent women's league, true even if hormone treatments were used, because they'd retain their height advantage.

If no hormone treatments were used and just people saying, "I identify as a woman," it would be like having the Harlem Globetrotters on the court, without the shenanigans.

Basketball is probably an extreme case, of course, because of the advantage height gives. And it's my impression that most people, but not all, will accept a transwoman competing with biological women only if testosterone has been lowered.

I think more data is needed to make a really informed decision. We do hear of transwomen doing really well in events, but we don't hear about them doing very poorly, so we might not be getting an honest view of what's happening, or they might just tend to do very well. I don't know which is the case.

[Worffan101]

I mean, I've got nothing against separating sports by weight class or height or something like that instead of gender.

Won't work, though. The problem is in the body chemistry. A 115 pound man will absolutely trounce the overwhelming majority of 115 pound women in almost any physical contest. Testosterone is a hell of a drug.

Now maybe that's not a good reason to segregate sports. We didn't used to, after all. For a long time, women competed against men, when they were allowed to compete at all. We could go back to that, but part of that is accepting that very few traditional looking women will be getting medals.

That's not true. Testosterone isn't some magic super-drug, our society simply encourages women to have low upper-body strength and to maintain low weight through unhealthy diets and poor physical condition. Why do you think all the Amazons in Wonder Woman looked like their arms were noodles? They were played by women who've spent their entire careers literally starving themselves to fit insane artificial beauty standards.

Also, what about trans men? If G-Man's insane ideas were adopted, it would be hilariously easy for trans men to dope themselves and get away with cheating to win by disguising the drugs with their regular hormone treatments. Can you imagine the reaction THAT would get?

[LittleRaven]

That's not true. Testosterone isn't some magic super-drug...

It's...pretty close. Take a look at the difference between a male who took hormone blockers before hitting puberty and one who took them afterwards. It's...dramatic. Everything changes. Bones become thicker. Muscles become denser. Shoulders widen, the waist thickens. The shape of the face changes. You're right, of course, that social standards also come into play...and scientists are busy studying the extent to which things like muscle memory affect strength in trans people....but it's not ALL in our heads. We can (and have) scienced this stuff. Men are bigger. They have quantifiably stronger bones. They have quantifiably more skeletal muscle mass. They can lift more, throw faster, and hit harder. Serena Williams is a monster on the women's tennis scene. She can destroy almost any opponent through her sheer physical dominance. But if you put her on the men's circuit, she'd be lucky to qualify for most tournaments and I doubt she'd even place at any of them. That's how amazingly stark the differences between the sexes are.

Also, what about trans men? If G-Man's insane ideas were adopted, it would be hilariously easy for trans men to dope themselves and get away with cheating to win by disguising the drugs with their regular hormone treatments. Can you imagine the reaction THAT would get?

Doesn't work that way. Anyone, male or female, can dope effectively if they're wealthy enough - we've had decades of scandals in virtually every sport that proves that. But if you start as male, you're way, WAY above the baseline where most women start. We haven't seen any trans men dominating their sports the way we're seeing transwomen do it because that's an almost impossible mountain for them to climb. The biological deck is simply stacked against them.

[Yukaphile]

I would be willing to bet a trained female martial arts master could kick the ass of any heavyweight male fighting champion. Don't underestimate women, and don't treat women as if they're dwarfs and most men are Arnold Schwarzenegger in comparison. That's not how it is. Or do you need to be schooled by Ra's?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRC9XsuqTj8

[Darth Wedgius]

I mean, I've got nothing against separating sports by weight class or height or something like that instead of gender.

Won't work, though. The problem is in the body chemistry. A 115 pound man will absolutely trounce the overwhelming majority of 115 pound women in almost any physical contest. Testosterone is a hell of a drug.

Now maybe that's not a good reason to segregate sports. We didn't used to, after all. For a long time, women competed against men, when they were allowed to compete at all. We could go back to that, but part of that is accepting that very few traditional looking women will be getting medals.

That's not true. Testosterone isn't some magic super-drug, our society simply encourages women to have low upper-body strength and to maintain low weight through unhealthy diets and poor physical condition. Why do you think all the Amazons in Wonder Woman looked like their arms were noodles? They were played by women who've spent their entire careers literally starving themselves to fit insane artificial beauty standards.

Also, what about trans men? If G-Man's insane ideas were adopted, it would be hilariously easy for trans men to dope themselves and get away with cheating to win by disguising the drugs with their regular hormone treatments. Can you imagine the reaction THAT would get?

Do you think our society encourages women to be shorter? Also, which societies have women with the same average upper-body strength as men?