By the Imperious Leader's Command

[Mickey_Rat15]

"It's one thing for the federal government to require its own employees to be vaccinated. But mandating vaccination for 80 million people who work in the private sector is a giant abuse of government authority. The feds should not have this power.

The strategy for enacting the mandate is authoritarian and anti-democratic. Congress has not passed a law explicitly giving the executive branch the power to implement a private vaccine mandate. The executive branch is simply deciding that it already possesses this power. If OSHA can require vaccination under its existing authority, there is little limit to what the agency can do."

https://reason.com/2021/09/09/president ... ouncement/

Given that one of the major groups of unvaccinated are black Americans, it would seem that this will have a disparate impact on that community, so is this an example of systemic racisim?

Or maybe they should have bothered to go and get their free vaccine whilst they could?

This is not whether this is good policy, this about whether the Presidency has the legal authority to do what Biden is proposing.

"You made us do this" is an excuse for abusers.

[Draco Dracul]

"It's one thing for the federal government to require its own employees to be vaccinated. But mandating vaccination for 80 million people who work in the private sector is a giant abuse of government authority. The feds should not have this power.

The strategy for enacting the mandate is authoritarian and anti-democratic. Congress has not passed a law explicitly giving the executive branch the power to implement a private vaccine mandate. The executive branch is simply deciding that it already possesses this power. If OSHA can require vaccination under its existing authority, there is little limit to what the agency can do."

https://reason.com/2021/09/09/president ... ouncement/

Given that one of the major groups of unvaccinated are black Americans, it would seem that this will have a disparate impact on that community, so is this an example of systemic racisim?

Or maybe they should have bothered to go and get their free vaccine whilst they could?

This is not whether this is good policy, this about whether the Presidency has the legal authority to do what Biden is proposing.

"You made us do this" is an excuse for abusers.

The CDC has the legal authority to declare vaccine mandates.

[Yukaphile]

The left isn't helping by embracing shit they condemned under Bush. If it's wrong to scorn these draconian measures for "national security," it's wrong for this supposed public health crisis. This virus is nowhere near the superkiller the media, the cable news, and online sites want you to believe it is. And I personally did agree with that article. As an institution, there's every reason to distrust science. But as the philosophy, it works. But what works best for it? TIME. And then suddenly you got ALL these politicians operating on half-baked science that hasn't fermented in early 2020. And now they just keep hammering it over and over. Let's face it, this virus would be pussy standards compared to previous generations and how they handled things. This is not remotely comparable to other great pandemics of the past. Plus the numbers of "deaths" keep changing, perhaps from COVID, perhaps not. We'll need TIME to sort it out, the proper science demands TIME, and you know, the politicians are COUNTING on that in order to get their agenda pushed. They want to get anti-vaxxers jabbed in order to show them there's nothing to fear. I got my shots. I have nothing to fear. I've never been an anti-vaxxer. But now it's not JUST people operating on faulty science you got joining their ranks. I've literally seen liberals in the center who are just THAT opposed to overstep from the Democratic leadership. You can't just barge in and demand people conform to your standard of living. Let me tell you, this so-called "public health crisis" seems more engineered when you expect deaths in the streets. And my seventy-year-old+ mother is walking proof older people are not in risk. Let's go back to my Dragon Ball Z YouTuber friend, okay... I hope he isn't too mad I name him.

Vegito1089. He's said before, he intends to WAIT for a while, years, to see how the vaccine goes. To see if there are side effects. Same with Tyler (won't give last name), a mixed Japanese/Irish friend, but he is in the same boat. A right libertarian. He is pro-choice. Minorities! Who'd have THUNK it, huh? But then I see a lot of Twitter speak, and it just shows me how RADICAL you lefties have become and just don't SEE IT. Look at comments like how white women have internalized misogyny, as a way to kinda discredit feisty women on the right (I HAVE met them) which the men over there LIKE, because "they're just brainwashed to think a certain way." Do you intend to go to those POC communities and force them to take the vaccine? Hey, that doesn't make good press, does it? To round up minorities and jab them, does it? WE NEED TO PULL BACK. Find the common ground. And the ghouls in charge don't want us to. Our division helps them. SURELY we can agree, that we don't have choice now, the right took control over both parties and our institutions long ago. I'd say around the seventies and eighties. And that is what it is.

[Mickey_Rat15]

If the left can NEVER have enough of a damned fuckin' reckoning to come to understand where the right's distrust in science AS AN INSTITUTION, not as a philosophy, has broken down, as I've come to in the past year, to see where the flaws are we need to address, because everyone admits and knows science is not infallible and needs time to work, that even the best, centuries-old science is prone to being proven wrong and SHOULD be, then we're going to keep fighting for a LONG TIME. Where does it end? Congratulations on doing everything the DNC wants you to. Hate-voting is really all that keeps them going as they sow division in their own base the way the GOP does. It's just appalling.

The right's distrust of science is something that the right has deliberately fostered. They have done this largely for monetary gain as distrust in science combined with trust in right wing authority figures is needed for thier base to continue to vote for economic policies that actively hurt them.

Vaccine reluctance cuts across party lines, to reduce it to a partisan issue is an error.

To dismiss another person's assessment of risk to "distrust of science" is an appeal to authority fallacy. Given that at least 20% of medical professionals have not taken the vaccine to classify them as "anti-science" is something of a libel.

About 75% of the people eligible to be vaccinated in the USA are, given about 50 million children 12 and under are not eligible. This is a rather good number and I am not sure what the urgency is to use force to compel compliance other than the administration flailing to assert they are in control of a situation that is not controllable.

[Mickey_Rat15]

"It's one thing for the federal government to require its own employees to be vaccinated. But mandating vaccination for 80 million people who work in the private sector is a giant abuse of government authority. The feds should not have this power.

The strategy for enacting the mandate is authoritarian and anti-democratic. Congress has not passed a law explicitly giving the executive branch the power to implement a private vaccine mandate. The executive branch is simply deciding that it already possesses this power. If OSHA can require vaccination under its existing authority, there is little limit to what the agency can do."

https://reason.com/2021/09/09/president ... ouncement/

Given that one of the major groups of unvaccinated are black Americans, it would seem that this will have a disparate impact on that community, so is this an example of systemic racisim?

Or maybe they should have bothered to go and get their free vaccine whilst they could?

This is not whether this is good policy, this about whether the Presidency has the legal authority to do what Biden is proposing.

"You made us do this" is an excuse for abusers.

The CDC has the legal authority to declare vaccine mandates.

Do they? Then why is OSHA being used as the enforcement agency?

[Yukaphile]

Yeah, as I said, I will NEVER be Republican, but I'm a liberal. Just an independent liberal now.

[clearspira]

I think anti-vaxxers are morons. Sorry, can't be bothered to sugar coat the feelings of these people any more. Do you realise how many preventable diseases are now killing children because of shitty dumb parents? Measles was officially declared eliminated in the US in 2000. Now? Kills hundreds of children a year and that figure is only going up.
God damn lets all hope polio doesn't make a return. We can drape fun little Christmas tree lights over the iron lungs and call them ''i'm happy mummy didn't vaccinate me'' pods.

''But, muh freedom!!'' You have the freedom to kill others? And your kids? And your friends? And co-workers? No vaccine is 100% effective which means that they rely on herd immunity to get the best out of them. Your ''freedom'' is just another word for ''selfish''.

Do you know what I blame? Social media. It has allowed silver tongued liars and charlatans and Twitter scientists to pollute the minds of the impressionable. So many of our problems today from vaccine ''hesitancy'' to crackpot lunatics being voted in is down to the mistrust of actual, accredited, learned experts and social media has fuelled it.

[Yukaphile]

Yeah, parents who don't get kids their boosters are just morons. It's true. I ain't ever having kids because no conscious and self-respecting woman will ever choose to procreate with me, lol, but on the off chance it happened, my kids would get their boosters. And I can't blame Jenny McCarthy, either. She's just a dumb, vain actress like all the others in Hollywood. "Look at me, look at me!" I CAN blame whoever that original doctor was. He deserves a thousand more lawsuits. Was he ever hit with malpractice? McCarthy just put it into the public sphere. However, clearspira, can you deny at this point it IS about control? You know, this isn't my saying this. Tyler and Vegito1089, those aforementioned POC checkmarks, so you can't criticize them, I guess (except to insist they're "brainwashed" by the evil white patriarchy, I think), they think it was meant as the means to put down Hong Kong protesters and remove Trump. They don't even like Trump, and that's what they say. We've been under so much control for so long, it isn't because Trump is some kinda saint that they wanted him gone - he was a literal ROGUE OUTSIDER they could not control, and control is so tight at this point, it scared them to death. And being more libertarian-minded, where do you stand on the government just enforcing a vaccine mandate? I'm overweight, Fuzzy is professed to be so as well, and drinks. My half-brother is also overweight, in his forties. And chain smokes. He did drugs when he was younger. Again, my mother had a stroke last year AND she's in her seventies. We are medically speaking, the most vulnerable to COVID. And I say, don't start a damn crusade having the government INVADE people's homes and private lives IN MY NAME on that basis alone. You had COVID, IIRC. Hell, reading older comments, you all were worrying about me around spring. Shouldn't have been, tbh, but you were. So what's your thought on all that?

[Draco Dracul]

If the left can NEVER have enough of a damned fuckin' reckoning to come to understand where the right's distrust in science AS AN INSTITUTION, not as a philosophy, has broken down, as I've come to in the past year, to see where the flaws are we need to address, because everyone admits and knows science is not infallible and needs time to work, that even the best, centuries-old science is prone to being proven wrong and SHOULD be, then we're going to keep fighting for a LONG TIME. Where does it end? Congratulations on doing everything the DNC wants you to. Hate-voting is really all that keeps them going as they sow division in their own base the way the GOP does. It's just appalling.

The right's distrust of science is something that the right has deliberately fostered. They have done this largely for monetary gain as distrust in science combined with trust in right wing authority figures is needed for thier base to continue to vote for economic policies that actively hurt them.

Vaccine reluctance cuts across party lines, to reduce it to a partisan issue is an error.

To dismiss another person's assessment of risk to "distrust of science" is an appeal to authority fallacy. Given that at least 20% of medical professionals have not taken the vaccine to classify them as "anti-science" is something of a libel.

About 75% of the people eligible to be vaccinated in the USA are, given about 50 million children 12 and under are not eligible. This is a rather good number and I am not sure what the urgency is to use force to compel compliance other than the administration flailing to assert they are in control of a situation that is not controllable.

If you break down county by county vaccination rates are inversely correlated with support for Donald Trump.

Additionally, of the around 278 million Americans eligible for the vaccine only 178 million are fully vaccinated or only 65%.

While it's not a political thing it should be noted that the modern anti vax movement was started as part of a scam to make a lot of money via a frivolous lawsuit, and test kits for a made up disease.

[sayla0079]

I actually got my shots, but the idea of FORCING the vaccine onto 80 million people is fuckin' scary, you know?

Oh I can understand that but to me being forced to get this vaccination is no different than when it was mandatory that you had to get vaccinations for school/military.