Sfdebris.net

TGLS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 1:51 pm

Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:59 am On the plus side I view the collapse of capitalism as something that is both necessary for the survival of humanity and good in and of itself as capitalism is literally the only reason that automation is a bad thing.

I think you're being rather optimistic about the shape of post-capitalism.

Why wouldn't I be? There are exactly two outcomes of post capitalism, communism and the the end of the world and the end of the world is going to happen under capitalism. The worst possible post capital out come is the same as the best outcome under capitalism.

I sense a lack of imagination.

Yeah that's quite aspirational.

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:59 pm I sense a lack of imagination.

Okay what's an outcome that's not communism, not capitalism, and not the end of the world?

Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:45 pm

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:59 pm I sense a lack of imagination.

Okay what's an outcome that's not communism, not capitalism, and not the end of the world?

Neo-feudalism. Ultranationalism. Stalinism.

TGLS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:00 pm

Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:45 pm

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:59 pm I sense a lack of imagination.

Okay what's an outcome that's not communism, not capitalism, and not the end of the world?

Neo-feudalism. Ultranationalism. Stalinism.

Anarchy.

Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:59 am

clearspira wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:05 am My opinion hasn't changed. Bullshit jobs that aren't actually needed will need to be created in order to keep people employed in this new wave of AI. Otherwise capitalism is going to collapse because no one will have any money to spend.

All of these drone vehicles and automated shops - they'll be regulated by the end of the century. Do not also rule out a Trump-style reactionary government that gets in promising this either.

My view is that the odds of bullshit jobs being created is very low because while they would be needed to placate the masses long term they are devastating for any given quarter which is all the highly automated investor system cares about. On the plus side I view the collapse of capitalism as something that is both necessary for the survival of humanity and good in and of itself as capitalism is literally the only reason that automation is a bad thing.

I do think that capitalism will pass at some point, much like feudalism and theocracy did in previous centuries. They were not really evil but civilization reached a point where they just didn't work anymore. I can see something similar happening to capitalism when technology reaches a point where it just doesn't serve any purpose anymore.

Of course don't hold your breath, while I do see it as likely I also don't expect to see it in my lifetime. Maybe our grandchildren might see it, maybe.

clearspira wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:03 pm

TGLS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:00 pm

Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:45 pm

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:59 pm I sense a lack of imagination.

Okay what's an outcome that's not communism, not capitalism, and not the end of the world?

Neo-feudalism. Ultranationalism. Stalinism.

Anarchy.

Or what about Roddenberry's Federation?

Personally, I always thought the federation abandoned money not because it was evil but simply that technology made everything too cheap to sell.

clearspira wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:03 pm

TGLS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:00 pm

Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:45 pm

Madner Kami wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:59 pm I sense a lack of imagination.

Okay what's an outcome that's not communism, not capitalism, and not the end of the world?

Neo-feudalism. Ultranationalism. Stalinism.

Anarchy.

Depends on the anarchy.

Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:45 pm Okay what's an outcome that's not communism, not capitalism, and not the end of the world?

Social Democracy
Space Feudalism
UBI Free Trade
Post-Scarcity