Florida governor refuses to recognise transgender swimmer

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Thebestoftherest
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Re: Florida governor refuses to recognise transgender swimmer

Post by Thebestoftherest »

Heck, aren't sports all about using what advantage you to win.
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BridgeConsoleMasher
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Re: Florida governor refuses to recognise transgender swimmer

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btw it's Thomas, not Thompson. Lea Thompson is the actress that played in the first Back to the Future movie as Lorraine Baines/McFly.
..What mirror universe?
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Frustration
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Re: Florida governor refuses to recognise transgender swimmer

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Draco Dracul wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:52 am It's quite funny that people only ever seem to care about women's sports when trans women.
It's plain and simple bigotry not only against trans people, but against women in general as it states in no uncertain terms that you believe cis women to be innately inferior to AMAB people.
At sports? I believe the near-universal consensus is that women, considered as a group, aren't as athletically talented as men. Which is why women's sports are kept separate, because on a truly level playing field, women wouldn't get to play very often.
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Re: Florida governor refuses to recognise transgender swimmer

Post by Draco Dracul »

Frustration wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:59 pm
Draco Dracul wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:52 am It's quite funny that people only ever seem to care about women's sports when trans women.
It's plain and simple bigotry not only against trans people, but against women in general as it states in no uncertain terms that you believe cis women to be innately inferior to AMAB people.
At sports? I believe the near-universal consensus is that women, considered as a group, aren't as athletically talented as men. Which is why women's sports are kept separate, because on a truly level playing field, women wouldn't get to play very often.
And that is almost entirely hormonal. It's not some metaphysical effect of the Y chromosome, but largely the result of testosterone on the human body. Most of the effects of testosterone on the human body will stop or even reverse in its absence. Muscle mass will reduce, bone density will lower (trans women on HRT have a higher risk of osteoporosis than cis women), tendons and ligaments will shrink resulting in a loss of height (though only by about 2 inches) and smaller hands and feet. The few changes that won't reverse are growth of facial hair, and the thickening of the vocal cords.
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Frustration
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Re: Florida governor refuses to recognise transgender swimmer

Post by Frustration »

Grip strength?
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Re: Florida governor refuses to recognise transgender swimmer

Post by hammerofglass »

Draco Dracul wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 10:07 pm
Frustration wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:59 pm
Draco Dracul wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:52 am It's quite funny that people only ever seem to care about women's sports when trans women.
It's plain and simple bigotry not only against trans people, but against women in general as it states in no uncertain terms that you believe cis women to be innately inferior to AMAB people.
At sports? I believe the near-universal consensus is that women, considered as a group, aren't as athletically talented as men. Which is why women's sports are kept separate, because on a truly level playing field, women wouldn't get to play very often.
And that is almost entirely hormonal. It's not some metaphysical effect of the Y chromosome, but largely the result of testosterone on the human body. Most of the effects of testosterone on the human body will stop or even reverse in its absence. Muscle mass will reduce, bone density will lower (trans women on HRT have a higher risk of osteoporosis than cis women), tendons and ligaments will shrink resulting in a loss of height (though only by about 2 inches) and smaller hands and feet. The few changes that won't reverse are growth of facial hair, and the thickening of the vocal cords.
While that's all true I do think that the one year requirement for testosterone blockers a lot of places have should probably be two. The effects are dramatic but they are not quite that fast.
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Re: Florida governor refuses to recognise transgender swimmer

Post by Draco Dracul »

Frustration wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 10:37 pm Grip strength?
What do you think determines grip strength?
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Frustration
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Re: Florida governor refuses to recognise transgender swimmer

Post by Frustration »

Since, unlike many sex-related physiological differences, grip strength is massively different between male and women to the point that its distributions mostly don't overlap, it's a good question as to how hormonal changes would affect it.

Clearly your claim has obvious implications, to the degree that it is correct. I think people are skeptical of the factual correctness of the claim, and m-t-f athletes who achieve marked success in women's sports further that skepticism.
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Draco Dracul
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Re: Florida governor refuses to recognise transgender swimmer

Post by Draco Dracul »

Frustration wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:41 pm Since, unlike many sex-related physiological differences, grip strength is massively different between male and women to the point that its distributions mostly don't overlap, it's a good question as to how hormonal changes would affect it.

Clearly your claim has obvious implications, to the degree that it is correct. I think people are skeptical of the factual correctness of the claim, and m-t-f athletes who achieve marked success in women's sports further that skepticism.
Do you have any research to back up the idea that HRT doesn't effect grip strength? Because it's still determined by muscles and significant loss of grip strength by trans women that go on HRT is very common.
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Re: Florida governor refuses to recognise transgender swimmer

Post by McAvoy »

Aren't there physical advantages that men have over women after puberty? Like even if they were the same height? Like men having larger hearts, denser bones, larger lungs (nearly the whole respiratory system is larger).

Nevermind muscle mass.
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