Biden forgives another $39 billion dollars in student debt

[CharlesPhipps]

Government exists to carry out limited functions of organization that would be prohibitively difficult to arrange otherwise. It's not a sociological Swiss Army Knife that contains many tools for any conceivable function.

I mean one of those functions is public works. Roads, highways, post office, military, and so on.

But I don't think the government should be in Student Loans unless they're trying to support education.

And if they are, nickel and diming the people that can't afford it in the first is fucking ridiculous.

[ProfessorDetective]

Government exists to carry out limited functions of organization that would be prohibitively difficult to arrange otherwise. It's not a sociological Swiss Army Knife that contains many tools for any conceivable function.

I mean one of those functions is public works. Roads, highways, post office, military, and so on.

But I don't think the government should be in Student Loans unless they're trying to support education.

And if they are, nickel and diming the people that can't afford it in the first is fucking ridiculous.

Yeah, they're turning into an obvious debt trap... Which is probably the point, honestly.

[McAvoy]

Government exists to carry out limited functions of organization that would be prohibitively difficult to arrange otherwise. It's not a sociological Swiss Army Knife that contains many tools for any conceivable function.

I mean one of those functions is public works. Roads, highways, post office, military, and so on.

But I don't think the government should be in Student Loans unless they're trying to support education.

And if they are, nickel and diming the people that can't afford it in the first is fucking ridiculous.

Remember that the government took on the highway system, local roads, military, public education because the private owned alternative realistically wouldn't work. With public schools there is still the alternative with the private Catholic Schools among other religious schools.

Maybe debt forgiveness could be dropped if the universities were not charging so much that it makes it only accessible to the upper half of the middle class or go into serious student debt where you pay for decades.

Maybe we can fix that but then again still haven't fixed the Healthcare system.

[CharlesPhipps]

Remember that the government took on the highway system, local roads, military, public education because the private owned alternative realistically wouldn't work. With public schools there is still the alternative with the private Catholic Schools among other religious schools.

I think the sheer broken nature of American education is not actually understood by a large number of the public. I live in Kentucky where public schools aren't simply a means of providing a basic education that every citizen should be entitled to of mathematics, history, reading, and other benefits. Public schools actually provide a good number of the state's poorest with food security. Which is in simple terms, TLDR, means, "A lot of the citizens of Kentucky can't actually afford to feed their kids."

https://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-i ... a/kentucky

The apocalyptic lack of social safety net in my state means that churches and public education barely keep a significant chunk of the public alive. Which is to say that private or paid for education schools are absolutely not a realistic alternative.

Maybe debt forgiveness could be dropped if the universities were not charging so much that it makes it only accessible to the upper half of the middle class or go into serious student debt where you pay for decades.

Maybe we can fix that but then again still haven't fixed the Healthcare system.

More public universities that are providing free education would go a long way to fixing things but right now forgiving debt owned by the government seems the best solution for many. In simple terms, the government doesn't NEED to make a profit from its own citizens.

[McAvoy]

Remember that the government took on the highway system, local roads, military, public education because the private owned alternative realistically wouldn't work. With public schools there is still the alternative with the private Catholic Schools among other religious schools.

I think the sheer broken nature of American education is not actually understood by a large number of the public. I live in Kentucky where public schools aren't simply a means of providing a basic education that every citizen should be entitled to of mathematics, history, reading, and other benefits. Public schools actually provide a good number of the state's poorest with food security. Which is in simple terms, TLDR, means, "A lot of the citizens of Kentucky can't actually afford to feed their kids."

https://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-i ... a/kentucky

The apocalyptic lack of social safety net in my state means that churches and public education barely keep a significant chunk of the public alive. Which is to say that private or paid for education schools are absolutely not a realistic alternative.

Maybe debt forgiveness could be dropped if the universities were not charging so much that it makes it only accessible to the upper half of the middle class or go into serious student debt where you pay for decades.

Maybe we can fix that but then again still haven't fixed the Healthcare system.

More public universities that are providing free education would go a long way to fixing things but right now forgiving debt owned by the government seems the best solution for many. In simple terms, the government doesn't NEED to make a profit from its own citizens.

State education programs are a different animal. We got DeSantis to thank for that right now. But for the most part public education has always had issues with the public. Whether it's Creationism vs Evolution, or teaching sex education in various forms, history, science, gym, etc. Math now with Common Core.

[Madner Kami]

Remember that the government took on the highway system, local roads, military, public education because the private owned alternative realistically wouldn't work. With public schools there is still the alternative with the private Catholic Schools among other religious schools.

That is not a viable common alternative in a secular state.

Maybe debt forgiveness could be dropped if the universities were not charging so much that it makes it only accessible to the upper half of the middle class or go into serious student debt where you pay for decades.

Universities can charge so much, because they provide a product that is in wide demand and they're the only ones who can enlarge the availability. It's a monopoly-situation and, frankly, as much as the debt-forgiving is a necessary thing, it is also a massive transfer of public funds into private hands, because the universities already had that money and it was society, in the form of the state, which now choose to forfeit a part of it's rightful and necessary income, aka, the state took on debt with nothing to show in return. This isn't a good thing. Quite the contrary. A really shitty Catch-22 for society.

But luckily, there's a really easy and obvious remedy to prevent that from happening again: Public universities. Though good luck with getting that going with the either the GOP or the Donkeys.

Maybe we can fix that but then again still haven't fixed the Healthcare system.

Easy fix as well: Everybody gives a share of their income into a common account. That common fund is used to pay medical bills and just like any good union, that fund has a really strong hand in price-negotiations. But there we again: Good luck getting anything done with the GOP.

[Frustration]

I mean one of those functions is public works. Roads, highways, post office, military, and so on.

Says you. Of those four things at least two shouldn't be the business of the national government, probably three.

But I don't think the government should be in Student Loans unless they're trying to support education.

The government shouldn't have a position on education, neither for nor against.

[CharlesPhipps]

Says you. Of those four things at least two shouldn't be the business of the national government, probably three.

Having grown up in Kentucky where almost everything is privatized, I generally think it's a shit model for almost anything public works related.

The government shouldn't have a position on education, neither for nor against.

The government should exist to improve people's lives because it's a collective work by itself.

[Frustration]

If you want to improve people's lives, start a corporation. Profit or non-profit, it doesn't matter. But keep out of government.

The easier it is for people to induce government to try to alter the world in ways they prefer, the easier it is for other people alter it in ways the first wouldn't prefer. And it's one of the least effective ways to reach desired results without undesirable side effects. Immense power with low efficiency is the worst case.

[CharlesPhipps]

If you want to improve people's lives, start a corporation.

A corporation should not attempt to improve lives because a corporation is designed to generate profit for the owners. It is the ONLY thing it is good at. Any attempt to do charitable or public works with a corporation will automatically be inferior to a charity or government program and eventually collapse when attempting to do it for something other than generating wealth.

But I don't get the ideology of, "the government shouldn't do things to benefit its citizens." I'd love to hear it explained.