clearspira wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:47 pm1) I think that its going to be too close to call. Biden's health and foreign policy towards Israel have wounded him. Just this week in England a by-election was lost by the two main parties because of their stance on Gaza - it is not hyperbole to say that votes will be lost over this.
I'll say this much: anyone who's voting against Biden because he's soft on Israel is at best overly emotional.
Depends on how affected you are by photographs of dead and starving children, I guess.
Yeah, well, do you really see Trump doing anything different than Biden did?
clearspira wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:47 pm1) I think that its going to be too close to call. Biden's health and foreign policy towards Israel have wounded him. Just this week in England a by-election was lost by the two main parties because of their stance on Gaza - it is not hyperbole to say that votes will be lost over this.
I'll say this much: anyone who's voting against Biden because he's soft on Israel is at best overly emotional.
Depends on how affected you are by photographs of dead and starving children, I guess.
Yeah, well, do you really see Trump doing anything different than Biden did?
Yes, Trump would not advocate for a ceasefire but the total deportation or death of the Palestinian people.
clearspira wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:47 pm1) I think that its going to be too close to call. Biden's health and foreign policy towards Israel have wounded him. Just this week in England a by-election was lost by the two main parties because of their stance on Gaza - it is not hyperbole to say that votes will be lost over this.
I'll say this much: anyone who's voting against Biden because he's soft on Israel is at best overly emotional.
Depends on how affected you are by photographs of dead and starving children, I guess.
Yeah, well, do you really see Trump doing anything different than Biden did?
Yes, Trump would not advocate for a ceasefire but the total deportation or death of the Palestinian people.
They are not remotely the same.
I suppose I should have clarified and said anything better.
clearspira wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:47 pm1) I think that its going to be too close to call. Biden's health and foreign policy towards Israel have wounded him. Just this week in England a by-election was lost by the two main parties because of their stance on Gaza - it is not hyperbole to say that votes will be lost over this.
I'll say this much: anyone who's voting against Biden because he's soft on Israel is at best overly emotional.
Depends on how affected you are by photographs of dead and starving children, I guess.
Yeah, well, do you really see Trump doing anything different than Biden did?
Yes, Trump would not advocate for a ceasefire but the total deportation or death of the Palestinian people.
They are not remotely the same.
I'm suddenly reminded of the Deep Space Nine epsiode ''Duet''. That's the one where a Cardassian so wrecked with guilt at not trying to stop the torture of Bajorans at a prisoner of war camp gets plastic surgery to pretend to be the leader of the camp just so the Bajorans can execute him. The moral of the story being that bystanders are guilty too.
Trump is the worst of the two on their stance on Palestine, absolutely. But a man who stands by and let's a crime against humanity happen when it was fully in his power to stop it is just as guilty in my book. Biden is a coward. The blood of those children is on his hands. It shouldn't have taken 30,000 dead Gazans for him to find the tongue in his skull.
And BTW, let us not forget the fact that he handed Afghanistan back to the Taliban along with a considerable amount of Western weapons and equipment. Twenty years of American and British blood went into protecting that country for nothing. Im sure that all of those Afghan women and children who can no longer get an education think that Biden has done a magic job as president.
Re: Biden V Trump: the rematch of the century
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:33 pm
by hammerofglass
I watched the State of the Union and it was actually a damn good speech. Where the hell has this version of Biden been for the last four years?
If we had a real primary and people in my state actually got to participate in it I'd still never vote for him, though. Pretty much for the reasons clearspira just said.
clearspira wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:47 pm1) I think that its going to be too close to call. Biden's health and foreign policy towards Israel have wounded him. Just this week in England a by-election was lost by the two main parties because of their stance on Gaza - it is not hyperbole to say that votes will be lost over this.
I'll say this much: anyone who's voting against Biden because he's soft on Israel is at best overly emotional.
Why?
Anyway it makes little sense to do anything for non-emotional reasons - thinking that it does is one of the big mistakes of the modern world. After all it's fundamentally emotional to care about whether or not you even live. Emotion is hugely important. The problem is never doing things for emotional reasons. Fact and reason are a necessary component to understanding what you're reacting to and what the likely outcomes are but alone they're meaningless.
clearspira wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:47 pm1) I think that its going to be too close to call. Biden's health and foreign policy towards Israel have wounded him. Just this week in England a by-election was lost by the two main parties because of their stance on Gaza - it is not hyperbole to say that votes will be lost over this.
I'll say this much: anyone who's voting against Biden because he's soft on Israel is at best overly emotional.
Why?
Anyway it makes little sense to do anything for non-emotional reasons - thinking that it does is one of the big mistakes of the modern world. After all it's fundamentally emotional to care about whether or not you even live. Emotion is hugely important. The problem is never doing things for emotional reasons. Fact and reason are a necessary component to understanding what you're reacting to and what the likely outcomes are but alone they're meaningless.
I'm not saying that people shouldn't be emotional, I'm saying it's bad to be too emotional. Like if you were going to vote for Biden, but this situation in Gaza is making you not want to vote for Biden, you gotta realize that no president who could plausibly be elected in 2024 is going to improve things in the direction you want.
There's plenty that could be done but not electing Biden is not one of them. That's the difference between too emotional and emotional.
TGLS wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 11:14 pm
I'll say this much: anyone who's voting against Biden because he's soft on Israel is at best overly emotional.
Why?
In general, the more emotionally 'hot' a person is, the less they think about the consequences of their actions.
clearspira wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 11:22 am
I'm suddenly reminded of the Deep Space Nine epsiode ''Duet''. That's the one where a Cardassian so wrecked with guilt at not trying to stop the torture of Bajorans at a prisoner of war camp gets plastic surgery to pretend to be the leader of the camp just so the Bajorans can execute him. The moral of the story being that bystanders are guilty too.
That is literally the opposite of the moral of the episode.
"They're all guilty" was Kira's position at the beginning of the episode, wanting to prosecute the man simply for being there, regardless of who he is or what he'd done. By the end of the episode, she had come around to understand how traumatic his experience as a bystander was, and wants to let him go "Enough good people have already died. I won't help kill another."
If anything, it's an allegory for blame that people put on themselves and others for things that are done in their name, but which were ultimately beyond their control.
Regarding the real issue, Israel/Palestine is literally one of the world's most long-standing conflicts, and one of its most complicated issues, both from the perspective of foreign policy, and of domestic politics.
And it's only gotten more complicated with the current situation; How to reign in Israel's genocidal response, while still keeping pressure on Hamas to release hostages (which include American citizens)? How to protect Palestinian civilians from the Israeli military, without leaving Israeli civilians vulnerable to Hamas? Particularly when neither side is willing to cooperate in good faith with the peace process?
Frankly, the idea that it's as simple as the US President dictating ceasefire terms seems absurdly naive.