The great 2020 election thread....

[Madner Kami]

But I abhor having a female Vice-President before women have properly been President, because it's more tokenism and more playing second best,

You keep postulating this, yet this is not the case.

[Yukaphile]

Oh? How is it not? The Vice-President is the secondary role to the President. They're a team, yet the President is the one calling the shots. Always has been. And having a female Vice-President before a female President is just atrocious, yet sadly it's what I think this country is ready for. Not a genuine female leader. Secondary female leader.

[Zoinksberg]

Skills, obviously.

I say any of the women in this race who are qualified automatically deserve the job more than any of the men

Since any woman that is running is by definition qualified to run, you are once again completely contradicting yourself. Madner asked you to decide and you pretend to decide by saying both things.

[Yukaphile]

Okay, I concede "any" is broad. I would say Harris and Warren then. I avoided saying their names because someone is inevitably going to challenge that idea, cite how they are unfit for office, that we shouldn't nominate them, blah, blah, blah... there.

[Madner Kami]

Oh? How is it not? The Vice-President is the secondary role to the President. They're a team, yet the President is the one calling the shots. Always has been. And having a female Vice-President before a female President is just atrocious, yet sadly it's what I think this country is ready for. Not a genuine female leader. Secondary female leader.

Why is that atrocious? If the voters had more confidence in a given woman, than a given man, then they'd vote for her. She'd deserve the post in that case. In your fantasy-lala-land, the woman gets the job because she has female genitalia, because that somehow makes her better than an equally skilled and merited male candidate or even a male candidate that has better skills and merit. How can you not see, how incredibly condenscending, anti-egalitarian, anti-democratic and both misogynistic and misandric at the same time your stance is?

Have a look at Germany. Our Chancellor is a female and she's reigninig this country since November 2005 (and she's been leading the CDU since April 2000 as well), will be in office till 2021 (unless she resigns somehow) and has been re-elected four consecutive times already. She's not where she is, because she has a vagina. She's there because she's seen as more skilled and having more merit than any of the men running against her. (As much as it pains me to say that as a left-leaning invididual, but:) THAT is a woman who deserves to be where she is. Not some token woman that gets into office because "it's time for a female president".

Okay, I concede "any" is broad. I would say Harris and Warren then. I avoided saying their names because someone is inevitably going to challenge that idea, cite how they are unfit for office, that we shouldn't nominate them, blah, blah, blah... there.

Oh my goddess. Someone might actually disagree with your point of view and challenge it. What a terrible prospect. We should call the police to arrest the offender...

[Yukaphile]

We've never had a female President! That's an injustice that just gets under my skin and leaves me seething angrily. And you know, I never used to be this obsessed over stuff like this. But the African-American community got their champion, so women deserve theirs too, and their chance was stolen from them three years ago even though she got more votes. You're spewing shit at me about how misogynistic (I think you're being misogynistic because you don't seem to care we've never had a female President - yes, everyone knows the qualifications matter first, but then why is it we've only had one black man among 40 white men?) I am, yet I said I wanted Warren and Harris over any of the men, yes? Because it's okay to care about someone's gender if they're entering the all-boys club - that is as the cherry on top, however. It's important first and foremost that Warren and Harris are qualified. In that they deserve it more is that we need to break that barrier SOMETIME. I support Affirmative Action style results if it helps empower people who are being discriminated against. And they will do the job wonderfully. And hey, your defending of the "majority rules" edict we have in society? Reminds me of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9etoocgcWm8

[Yukaphile]

Mander Kami, you don't like me. Why do you keep responding to me? I've blocked you, you've blocked me. Why can't you do what Darth did and just ignore me?

[Yukaphile]

Saying "I'd love a female President, I just don't want this particular one" is a flimsy rationalization people use to try and convince themselves they aren't really misogynistic. It's a way to pull themselves back so they don't have to vote for someone they want to not just be a candidate, but be Superwoman. That's what we demand from our female leaders. Perfection. And it's unrealistic and impossible. Warren has said tons of stuff I've hated. And I think Harris is way too eager to please the Sanders wing. But you can't have perfection. And I think it's time to show a woman can do the job as good as any man, because those rationalizations are out there. And it's a way for people not ready for a woman President to convince themselves they really are and pretend they really aren't sexist against female leaders. I wanna change that.

[Zoinksberg]

Saying "I'd love a female President, I just don't want this particular one" is a flimsy rationalization people use to try and convince themselves they aren't really misogynistic.

Talk about flimsy rationalizations. "If they don't like my candidate I don't have to start a conversation or discuss policies, I just call them a misogynist until they shut up. Then I win the argument!"

[Yukaphile]

Warren and Harris have flaws. All the candidates do. I'm not pretending otherwise. I'm also not claiming I won or something. Don't put words in my mouth. I just feel hopeless about all this. My feeling is this country is still too sexist to elect a woman, and that's deplorable, but I can't change that.