Trans "women" athletes have advantages over cis women

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

There’s a lot that could be said here. About how the IOC has had guidelines for trans women since 2004 but despite none yet qualifying it’s a big deal NOW suddenly.

Why would this be surprising? I know I keep saying this, but until recently, there haven't been very many transwomen around. There still aren't very many around, although there are a lot more than there used to be. Breaking into the highest levels of athletics is really, really hard. Frankly, we shouldn't expect a population as tiny as transwomen to produce any qualifying Olympic athletes.

"Until recently".

Wrong. Until recently, there haven't been many OUT trans women around. Trans women have been a significant population subset, at the very least, since the priestesses of Innana sang prayers in ancient Mesopotamia.

I don't care about what old barbaric places did in the age when a Celtic warrior had the right to abort a baby post birth.

It is a historical fact, whether you care or not. So stop pretending "the transgenders" are a trend that teenagers started on tumblr.

All I ask for is proof. That is not unreasonable.

I gave you proof and you said it didn't count.

[Karha of Honor]

I don't know, and that's a pretty outrageous claim that requires some pretty outrageous backing up.

Most of history is great? What you talking about Fuzzys?

[clearspira]

There’s a lot that could be said here. About how the IOC has had guidelines for trans women since 2004 but despite none yet qualifying it’s a big deal NOW suddenly.

Why would this be surprising? I know I keep saying this, but until recently, there haven't been very many transwomen around. There still aren't very many around, although there are a lot more than there used to be. Breaking into the highest levels of athletics is really, really hard. Frankly, we shouldn't expect a population as tiny as transwomen to produce any qualifying Olympic athletes.

"Until recently".

Wrong. Until recently, there haven't been many OUT trans women around. Trans women have been a significant population subset, at the very least, since the priestesses of Innana sang prayers in ancient Mesopotamia.

I don't care about what old barbaric places did in the age when a Celtic warrior had the right to abort a baby post birth.

It is a historical fact, whether you care or not. So stop pretending "the transgenders" are a trend that teenagers started on tumblr.

All I ask for is proof. That is not unreasonable.

I gave you proof and you said it didn't count.

No. You gave me evidence. That is not the same thing. And as Kami said: it is evidence only if you squint.
Funny thing is, i've admitted about three times so far that I think they existed, but I will tell you what I tell theists: I refuse to take anything on faith.

[LittleRaven]

Wrong. Until recently, there haven't been many OUT trans women around. Trans women have been a significant population subset, at the very least, since the priestesses of Innana sang prayers in ancient Mesopotamia.

Sure, but we don't have Olympic records from ancient Mesopotamia.

I'm not saying that transwomen are some brand-new thing, although, transwomen as aided by modern medicine kind of are. But the point I was making is that even now, they are very, VERY small population, and 20 years ago they were a much smaller population. It's very, VERY hard to become an Olympic athlete...only a tiny percentage of the population is capable of that, even with all the hard work and training in the world. At that level, success in sports comes down to your genes more than anything else. So for the very small population of transwomen to overlap with the very small population of Olympic athletes at all would be...statistically unlikely.

But honestly, we just don't have enough data yet. I suspect this is a problem that will be rectified over the next decade.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

[Darth Wedgius]

Submitted without much in the way of value judgments, just as an update:

Mary Gregory was stripped of her powerlifting medals and records by the RAW Powerlifting Federation, with their decision that she's technically still male, or at least male enough for this purpose. She'd broken several women's records with her performance. This after taking estrogen and testosterone blockers for 11 months. She hasn't had gender reassignment surgery; I don't know if that was part of the ruling, but if you're powerlifting with your male genitalia, Chuck Norris is going to make up facts about you. She said she'd transition surgically if she could, but her health insurance doesn't cover it.

USA Powerlifting has also decided recently that just gender identity is not enough to compete as a woman, citing that even after transitioning, trans-women have denser bones and denser muscles. Indeed, it should be a surprise to no one that men can be a little dense at times.

[Madner Kami]

USA Powerlifting has also decided recently that just gender identity is not enough to compete as a woman, citing that even after transitioning, trans-women have denser bones and denser muscles. Indeed, it should be a surprise to no one that men can be a little dense at times.

Really?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Yeah because the physical differences account for an unfair advantage across sexes.

[Darth Wedgius]

USA Powerlifting has also decided recently that just gender identity is not enough to compete as a woman, citing that even after transitioning, trans-women have denser bones and denser muscles. Indeed, it should be a surprise to no one that men can be a little dense at times.

Really?

Not just men. And if I didn't have a sense of humor about these things, I'd be, well, "progressive."

[LittleRaven]

And here comes the first lawsuit.

Three Connecticut girls who have run high school track have filed a federal discrimination complaint saying a statewide policy on transgender athletes has cost them top finishes in races and possibly college scholarships.

The complaint filed Monday with the US Education Department’s Office for Civil Rights was submitted by the conservative Christian law firm Alliance Defending Freedom on behalf of the girls, who are asking for an investigation of the policy and orders that would make competitions fair. The complaint also cites the federal Title IX rules aimed at equal rights in sports for female athletes.

‘‘Girls deserve to compete on a level playing field,’’ said Christiana Holcomb, legal counsel for Alliance Defending Freedom. ‘‘Women fought long and hard to earn the equal athletic opportunities that Title IX provides. Allowing boys to compete in girls’ sports reverses nearly 50 years of advances for women under this law. We shouldn’t force these young women to be spectators in their own sports.’’

Win or lose, I expect this won't be the last lawsuit. Someone is going to lose big here, and they are almost certain to be unhappy about it.