This is for topical issues effecting our fair world... you can quit snickering anytime. Note: It is the desire of the leadership of SFDebris Conglomerate that all posters maintain a civil and polite bearing in this forum, regardless of how you feel about any particular issue. Violators will be turned over to Captain Janeway for experimentation.
Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:22 am
You've literally been provided a source that IQ is largely environmental.
No, I have been provided with a source, which takes for granted the reader has a knowledge base which the provider clearly did not have, which discussed how the IQ of children is highly sensitive to environmental effects.
The effect of environment (excluding crippling deficiencies that damage the brain) drastically diminishes with time, to the point that the IQ of young adults is strongly correlated with their biological parents' IQ regardless of specific environmental circumstances now or earlier in life.
This is basic stuff that anyone spending five minutes reading Wikipedia would have picked up.
"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two equals four. If that is granted, all else follows." -- George Orwell, 1984
McAvoy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:20 am
My brother who is otherwise very intelligent still thinks sugar makes kids hyper.
Human beings haven't been selected by evolution for the ability to distinguish objective truth in matters not immediately relevant to survival. IQ doesn't directly relate to that ability - there are plenty of very clever people who have many clever strategies to rationalize their irrational and foolish beliefs.
Why, you can even find examples of that sort of thing on this very forum! Shock, horror, clutch pearls.
Caffeine is actually a depressant in children - it's a classic example of a 'paradoxical drug effect'. Yet how many people are convinced that soda will make kids hyperactive?
"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two equals four. If that is granted, all else follows." -- George Orwell, 1984
McAvoy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 12:01 amYeah... I am always skeptical of the 'do your own research' or 'I am not looking it up for you' types when confronted about a claim they have made.
It depends on how basic the claim is. People who don't know, or pretend not to know, things covered in Psych 101 and easily accessible with even casual searches shouldn't be tolerated when they demand sources. Obscure information requires documentation, not rudiments.
Wikipedia's articles on related topics are of limited value because of ideologically-motivated editors using true statements to craft misleading claims, but take a look at the section of "Race and Intelligence" discussing test scores:
In the US, individuals identifying themselves as Asian generally tend to score higher on IQ tests than Caucasians, who tend to score higher than Hispanics, who tend to score higher than African Americans. Nevertheless, greater variation in IQ scores exists within each ethnic group than between them.[68] A 2001 meta-analysis of the results of 6,246,729 participants tested for cognitive ability or aptitude found a difference in average scores between black people and white people of 1.1 standard deviations. Consistent results were found for college and university application tests such as the Scholastic Aptitude Test (N = 2.4 million) and Graduate Record Examination (N = 2.3 million), as well as for tests of job applicants in corporate settings (N = 0.5 million) and in the military (N = 0.4 million).[69]
A standard deviation on IQ tests is 15 points. With whites providing the baseline score of 100 (mathematically normalized), the average black score will be roughly 83-84.
"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two equals four. If that is granted, all else follows." -- George Orwell, 1984
Frustration wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:03 pm
The effect of environment (excluding crippling deficiencies that damage the brain) drastically diminishes with time, to the point that the IQ of young adults is strongly correlated with their biological parents' IQ regardless of specific environmental circumstances now or earlier in life.
This is basic stuff that anyone spending five minutes reading Wikipedia would have picked up.
In the US, individuals identifying themselves as Asian generally tend to score higher on IQ tests than Caucasians, who tend to score higher than Hispanics, who tend to score higher than African Americans. Nevertheless, greater variation in IQ scores exists within each ethnic group than between them.[68] A 2001 meta-analysis of the results of 6,246,729 participants tested for cognitive ability or aptitude found a difference in average scores between black people and white people of 1.1 standard deviations. Consistent results were found for college and university application tests such as the Scholastic Aptitude Test (N = 2.4 million) and Graduate Record Examination (N = 2.3 million), as well as for tests of job applicants in corporate settings (N = 0.5 million) and in the military (N = 0.4 million).[69]
A standard deviation on IQ tests is 15 points. With whites providing the baseline score of 100 (mathematically normalized), the average black score will be roughly 83-84.
You realize this doesn't actually show your claim. We would expect similar results if the coloration between wealth and IQ are causal. It also makes genetic factors less likely because if it is we should expect a much wider spread of results between people of recent African decent and literally everyone else because the there is more genetic diversity in Africa than the rest of the world combined.
Last edited by Draco Dracul on Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Frustration wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:41 pm
The source I keep telling you to look at is the one anyone with an interest in the topic should have looked at first.
Yet you haven't looked at it, and it doesn't seem likely that you're going to. The reason for this is pretty obvious.
Your own source, fucking Wikipedia, doesn't even make the claims you say it does because heritability and genetics aren't even the same thing. For example an accent is heritable, if your parents have a Boston accent the chances that you will have a Boston accent rise considerably. IQ being almost purely a result of wealth and access to education and IQ having a high degree of heritability are in no way contradictory because poverty is often generational in nature.
You don't understand what you're reading. The heritability of IQ holds even when environmental factors like SES are eliminated. The correlation of adopted children's IQ with their adoptive parents' is ZERO. The correlation of their IQ with their biological parents' IQs is roughly standard.
IQ is NOT "almost purely a result of wealth and access to education". If anything, it's the other way around: prosperity is highly linked to IQ, and high-status jobs that pay really well often require a certain amount of IQ. Dummies tend not to do well as doctors or lawyers. You can't give people wealth and education and increase their IQs, and educational opportunities for children can raise their test performance in the short term but has little to no effect on their IQ scores in the long term.
You're peddling blatant lies and ignoring the sources with contradict you.
"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two equals four. If that is granted, all else follows." -- George Orwell, 1984
