Not Chuck, but well worth watching.

[Worffan101]

Fixed the YouTube video for you Worffan.
Nearly 3 hours for an intro? I'm going to need some time to look at this one.

Since this video does seem to touch on the various politics covering the criticism of the new Star Wars, I'm going to agree this is the right place or this topic.

Thanks!

Yeah, it only touches on the politics indirectly--in criticizing the hypocrisy of other youtube reviewers, he touches indirectly on the big elephant in the room that TLJ was advertised as socially liberal, and therefore there were tendencies to paper over its remarkably socially regressive storytelling and the shitty way it treated Rey and Rose, as well as the structural flaws of the movie, in favor of accusing critics of the movie of being cybernazis.

This guy's done some really good analyses--though I am not sold on his takes on Infinity War and Black Panther (I'm of the opinion that Black Panther was a much smarter movie than anyone gives it credit for, despite the slightly dodgy CGI in the final fights, whereas Infinity War didn't really "get" any other MCU movie--I could go on for hours about the subtle tribal politics in play with T'Challa and M'Baku's relationship in Black Panther and the way Infinity War completely misunderstood all of that with the one line of interaction they got in that movie, but that would be boring as hell for anyone without a passing interest in sociology or anthropology), but his Jurassic World 2 analysis was great and I thought his 5-hour (yes, really) analysis of the plot and themes of TLJ made a really great point about how TLJ's buttfucked structure and haphazard artistic sensibilities ruined the themes of its plot.

And I know people want everything in bite-sized sound bites now, but sometimes, you really DO need the in-depth analysis--frex, Moviebob's Batman vs. Superman analysis, which I still maintain is the gold standard for dissecting how a bad movie was made and why despite Bob's recent spate of poorly-researched reaction pieces, is 5 hours about a 2.5 hour movie, and every second of those 5 hours is necessary to explain the fascinating degree to which and obscene number of levels on which that movie fails.

Actually socially liberal or the current Left talking head / op ed Borg Collective sees it as socially liberal?

Took me a minute to figure out where your reply to me was, lol. I love my ignore list, but I'll respond to you just this once.

TLJ was advertised as socially liberal. It isn't very socially liberal; freaking Nikita, a show I've started watching that's about a gorgeous babe in skimpy outfits who breaks dudes' necks and shows off her cleavage while flirting sexily, is more socially liberal than TLJ because it devotes the time to its female protagonists necessary to develop them, gives both the female and male characters (especially Division agents Amanda and Michael, but increasingly Nikita and Alex, too, as of halfway through the first season) non-stereotypical plotlines and motivations, and is smart and subtle with its character writing. Meanwhile TLJ is sabotaged by its very loud message of WOMEN ARE GREAT AND GUYS ARE ALL FAILURES AND COWARDLY ASSHOLES being belied by its female characters being alternately incompetent (Holdo simply does not act like a commanding officer when interacting with Poe, she isn't hardass enough on him), shoehorned into stereotypical plots (Rose and to a lesser extent Rey), defined by the men in their lives (Rose in the last 1/3, Rey in any scene with Kylo Ren), and not given the dialogue time necessary to give them proper personality development (Rey most of all but also Rose in the later half of the movie).

This is a movie that made me, someone who has complained about certain runs of WONDER WOMAN being insufficiently feminist and not containing enough female characters, say "you know, this is kind of reverse sexist". It takes a LOT to make me even consider that reverse sexism might even be a thing outside of a couple of very specific and esoteric contexts, but this garbage fire of a movie was so muddled in its messaging that it came off as socially CONSERVATIVE.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Fixed the YouTube video for you Worffan.
Nearly 3 hours for an intro? I'm going to need some time to look at this one.

Since this video does seem to touch on the various politics covering the criticism of the new Star Wars, I'm going to agree this is the right place or this topic.

Thanks!

Yeah, it only touches on the politics indirectly--in criticizing the hypocrisy of other youtube reviewers, he touches indirectly on the big elephant in the room that TLJ was advertised as socially liberal, and therefore there were tendencies to paper over its remarkably socially regressive storytelling and the shitty way it treated Rey and Rose, as well as the structural flaws of the movie, in favor of accusing critics of the movie of being cybernazis.

This guy's done some really good analyses--though I am not sold on his takes on Infinity War and Black Panther (I'm of the opinion that Black Panther was a much smarter movie than anyone gives it credit for, despite the slightly dodgy CGI in the final fights, whereas Infinity War didn't really "get" any other MCU movie--I could go on for hours about the subtle tribal politics in play with T'Challa and M'Baku's relationship in Black Panther and the way Infinity War completely misunderstood all of that with the one line of interaction they got in that movie, but that would be boring as hell for anyone without a passing interest in sociology or anthropology), but his Jurassic World 2 analysis was great and I thought his 5-hour (yes, really) analysis of the plot and themes of TLJ made a really great point about how TLJ's buttfucked structure and haphazard artistic sensibilities ruined the themes of its plot.

And I know people want everything in bite-sized sound bites now, but sometimes, you really DO need the in-depth analysis--frex, Moviebob's Batman vs. Superman analysis, which I still maintain is the gold standard for dissecting how a bad movie was made and why despite Bob's recent spate of poorly-researched reaction pieces, is 5 hours about a 2.5 hour movie, and every second of those 5 hours is necessary to explain the fascinating degree to which and obscene number of levels on which that movie fails.

Actually socially liberal or the current Left talking head / op ed Borg Collective sees it as socially liberal?

Took me a minute to figure out where your reply to me was, lol. I love my ignore list, but I'll respond to you just this once.

TLJ was advertised as socially liberal. It isn't very socially liberal; freaking Nikita, a show I've started watching that's about a gorgeous babe in skimpy outfits who breaks dudes' necks and shows off her cleavage while flirting sexily, is more socially liberal than TLJ because it devotes the time to its female protagonists necessary to develop them, gives both the female and male characters (especially Division agents Amanda and Michael, but increasingly Nikita and Alex, too, as of halfway through the first season) non-stereotypical plotlines and motivations, and is smart and subtle with its character writing. Meanwhile TLJ is sabotaged by its very loud message of WOMEN ARE GREAT AND GUYS ARE ALL FAILURES AND COWARDLY ASSHOLES being belied by its female characters being alternately incompetent (Holdo simply does not act like a commanding officer when interacting with Poe, she isn't hardass enough on him), shoehorned into stereotypical plots (Rose and to a lesser extent Rey), defined by the men in their lives (Rose in the last 1/3, Rey in any scene with Kylo Ren), and not given the dialogue time necessary to give them proper personality development (Rey most of all but also Rose in the later half of the movie).

This is a movie that made me, someone who has complained about certain runs of WONDER WOMAN being insufficiently feminist and not containing enough female characters, say "you know, this is kind of reverse sexist". It takes a LOT to make me even consider that reverse sexism might even be a thing outside of a couple of very specific and esoteric contexts, but this garbage fire of a movie was so muddled in its messaging that it came off as socially CONSERVATIVE.

I'm not married to this idea, but I felt like Holdo and Leia came off as grandstanding. I could see that being regressive if they were grossly incompetent, but there would probably need to be some apparent hypocrisy with how they dressed down Poe. From what I remember, it seemed like they were legitimately overrun by New Order ships.

Rey's plot doesn't seem subservient to Kylo's, it comes off more as an equal partnership in affairs.

[Worffan101]

It comes off as the young female protagonist being easily seduced by the planet-slaughtering supervillain because he's supposedly handsome (I don't think Adam Driver's all that good-looking, but what do I know?).

Then again this is a movie where the Empire never uses their hyperdrives to warp-jump ahead of the Rebels because Rian Johnson is incapable of imagining the sort of setup that nuBSG had as their FIRST. REGULAR. EPISODE.

At its core, TLJ's problem is bad writing and just plain bad filmmaking by the writing team and Rian Johnson. Even the second unit barely delivered.

[Karha of Honor]

Fixed the YouTube video for you Worffan.
Nearly 3 hours for an intro? I'm going to need some time to look at this one.

Since this video does seem to touch on the various politics covering the criticism of the new Star Wars, I'm going to agree this is the right place or this topic.

Thanks!

Yeah, it only touches on the politics indirectly--in criticizing the hypocrisy of other youtube reviewers, he touches indirectly on the big elephant in the room that TLJ was advertised as socially liberal, and therefore there were tendencies to paper over its remarkably socially regressive storytelling and the shitty way it treated Rey and Rose, as well as the structural flaws of the movie, in favor of accusing critics of the movie of being cybernazis.

This guy's done some really good analyses--though I am not sold on his takes on Infinity War and Black Panther (I'm of the opinion that Black Panther was a much smarter movie than anyone gives it credit for, despite the slightly dodgy CGI in the final fights, whereas Infinity War didn't really "get" any other MCU movie--I could go on for hours about the subtle tribal politics in play with T'Challa and M'Baku's relationship in Black Panther and the way Infinity War completely misunderstood all of that with the one line of interaction they got in that movie, but that would be boring as hell for anyone without a passing interest in sociology or anthropology), but his Jurassic World 2 analysis was great and I thought his 5-hour (yes, really) analysis of the plot and themes of TLJ made a really great point about how TLJ's buttfucked structure and haphazard artistic sensibilities ruined the themes of its plot.

And I know people want everything in bite-sized sound bites now, but sometimes, you really DO need the in-depth analysis--frex, Moviebob's Batman vs. Superman analysis, which I still maintain is the gold standard for dissecting how a bad movie was made and why despite Bob's recent spate of poorly-researched reaction pieces, is 5 hours about a 2.5 hour movie, and every second of those 5 hours is necessary to explain the fascinating degree to which and obscene number of levels on which that movie fails.

Actually socially liberal or the current Left talking head / op ed Borg Collective sees it as socially liberal?

Took me a minute to figure out where your reply to me was, lol. I love my ignore list, but I'll respond to you just this once.

TLJ was advertised as socially liberal. It isn't very socially liberal; freaking Nikita, a show I've started watching that's about a gorgeous babe in skimpy outfits who breaks dudes' necks and shows off her cleavage while flirting sexily, is more socially liberal than TLJ because it devotes the time to its female protagonists necessary to develop them, gives both the female and male characters (especially Division agents Amanda and Michael, but increasingly Nikita and Alex, too, as of halfway through the first season) non-stereotypical plotlines and motivations, and is smart and subtle with its character writing. Meanwhile TLJ is sabotaged by its very loud message of WOMEN ARE GREAT AND GUYS ARE ALL FAILURES AND COWARDLY ASSHOLES being belied by its female characters being alternately incompetent (Holdo simply does not act like a commanding officer when interacting with Poe, she isn't hardass enough on him), shoehorned into stereotypical plots (Rose and to a lesser extent Rey), defined by the men in their lives (Rose in the last 1/3, Rey in any scene with Kylo Ren), and not given the dialogue time necessary to give them proper personality development (Rey most of all but also Rose in the later half of the movie).

This is a movie that made me, someone who has complained about certain runs of WONDER WOMAN being insufficiently feminist and not containing enough female characters, say "you know, this is kind of reverse sexist". It takes a LOT to make me even consider that reverse sexism might even be a thing outside of a couple of very specific and esoteric contexts, but this garbage fire of a movie was so muddled in its messaging that it came off as socially CONSERVATIVE.

I'm not married to this idea, but I felt like Holdo and Leia came off as grandstanding. I could see that being regressive if they were grossly incompetent, but there would probably need to be some apparent hypocrisy with how they dressed down Poe. From what I remember, it seemed like they were legitimately overrun by New Order ships.

Rey's plot doesn't seem subservient to Kylo's, it comes off more as an equal partnership in affairs.

Finn is Jar Jar 2.0.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

That's ridiculous!

[Admiral X]

I can't really name a Jar-Jar of the ST. Rose is probably the most annoying one I can think of, and she's no Jar-Jar either. Finn had some real disservice done to his character, though, and the sad part is most of it was in the name of some comedy that just didn't work.

[Karha of Honor]

That's ridiculous!

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Finn is pretty hoaky in Force Awakens. I don't see anything wrong with him im in Last Jedi. That's in terms of writing and what not. His character in TFA being an abducted child made sense as far as his hapless demeanor.

[Karha of Honor]

Finn is pretty hoaky in Force Awakens. I don't see anything wrong with him im in Last Jedi. That's in terms of writing and what not. His character in TFA being an abducted child made sense as far as his hapless demeanor.

Abducted to be a murder and opression machine, not some meek weirdo.

[Jonathan101]

I'm not married to this idea, but I felt like Holdo and Leia came off as grandstanding. I could see that being regressive if they were grossly incompetent, but there would probably need to be some apparent hypocrisy with how they dressed down Poe. From what I remember, it seemed like they were legitimately overrun by New Order ships.

Rey's plot doesn't seem subservient to Kylo's, it comes off more as an equal partnership in affairs.

That's what the film wants you to believe, and perhaps how what the film itself actually thinks is happening, but the reality is that the First Order could have taken them out at anytime they pleased, yet at the same time the Resistance could have escaped at any time they wanted.

Except that neither side was able to think out of that very narrow box they insisted on looking through, plus for some reason the laws of physics decided to take a day off (you don't need fuel in space- there is no friction in space).