Is the backlash against Trump... overblown?

[CharlesPhipps]

So originally I was gonna note that the backlash against Trump isn't strong enough: Bush gained nigh-dictatorial powers and started multiple bloody, crusade-esque forever wars basically through sheer incompetence and being swept up in a wave of national panic. Trump wants to expand even beyond those powers because he openly admires the ability of dictators to be without criticism or oversight, and the only thing actually stopping him is the perception of backlash. So that the backlash isn't universal and constant is tacit admission a visible percentage of the population want a dictator.

but this is more meaningful.

So (1) it doesn't mean all Mexicans, and (2) it acknowledges that even some of the illegal immigrants are good people.

But not matter how often this is pointed out, NPCs will continue to claim it means Trump is racist. Because, IMHO, the facts stopped meaning anything to them in favor of their fantasy world where they're fighting a huge tide of white supremacy.

Apparently this needs explained.

Your basic premises in justifying current border policies is thus:
1. Refugees are coming illegally (they aren't)
2. We must conduct full checks on the intent and dangerousness of these refugees and immigrants (we'll come back to this)
3. Known criminals like syndicates could mix in with refugee populations (Already addressed)
Therefore
C. This is fine.

So that middle one sounds cool, most people buy that yeah.
But let's rephrase that.
"Refugees are inherently dangerous and must be presumed guilty and locked up until proven innocent"
On basis of their national origin.
Those nations being various countries of latin america, considered in the US as a distinct ethnic group.

"People of this National (Ethnic) background are guilty until proven innocent" is textbook racism. That someone would defend it as somehow not racist is quite damning. That apparently tens of millions of Americans are cheering it on instead of condemning the president and political party spouting it as a basic platform of their political agenda is horrifying.

Edit: fuck it, let's finish this thought.

So a meaningful percentage of the US voting populous is open to Dictator Trump. Another percentage claims that open racism in the name of excluding particular ethnic groups from the country is not racism and is desirable.
Where those two groups overlap, you have a group who wants to exercise dictatorial power in the name of creating a whiter nation.
When people claim Trump and his supporters are white supremacists? It's that group. They are white supremacists.

We can quibble about the size of that group, deriving an accurate snapshot of its size from existing voter data is tricky, but let's be clear: 100% of people who vote for Donald Trump in 2020 are in fact white supremacists.

That's some stretchin' ya got there, Cmdr!

People being detained are not necessarily refugees with any right to asylum. Crossing the border illegally is, um, illegal. That makes people sneaking over criminals. And those things you said were dealt with... weren't, or at least not adequately.

Let's examine the other "logic" in what you said. You didn't establish that Trump is trying to keep out illegal immigrants because most of them aren't white. And you gave no reason whatsoever for your conclusion that 100% of the people who vote Trump 2020 are white supremacists, you just kind of flung that one out there.

And this is what passes for thought for much of the left nowadays. That's kind of sad.

There's a lot to unpack but:

* The refugees ARE being detained, though.
* Is crossing the border something that warrants detainment
* What exactly is the punishment for illegally crossing the border that's fair
* What sort of conditions are warranted

Basically, it's illegal for a lot of people but most people think it should be treated like a speeding ticket and not rape and murder.

Walking on US soil without permission is a bizarre fucking hardline stance to take, especially when said "illegal immigrants" aren't necessarily doing anything criminal other than being here.

[Darth Wedgius]

So originally I was gonna note that the backlash against Trump isn't strong enough: Bush gained nigh-dictatorial powers and started multiple bloody, crusade-esque forever wars basically through sheer incompetence and being swept up in a wave of national panic. Trump wants to expand even beyond those powers because he openly admires the ability of dictators to be without criticism or oversight, and the only thing actually stopping him is the perception of backlash. So that the backlash isn't universal and constant is tacit admission a visible percentage of the population want a dictator.

but this is more meaningful.

So (1) it doesn't mean all Mexicans, and (2) it acknowledges that even some of the illegal immigrants are good people.

But not matter how often this is pointed out, NPCs will continue to claim it means Trump is racist. Because, IMHO, the facts stopped meaning anything to them in favor of their fantasy world where they're fighting a huge tide of white supremacy.

Apparently this needs explained.

Your basic premises in justifying current border policies is thus:
1. Refugees are coming illegally (they aren't)
2. We must conduct full checks on the intent and dangerousness of these refugees and immigrants (we'll come back to this)
3. Known criminals like syndicates could mix in with refugee populations (Already addressed)
Therefore
C. This is fine.

So that middle one sounds cool, most people buy that yeah.
But let's rephrase that.
"Refugees are inherently dangerous and must be presumed guilty and locked up until proven innocent"
On basis of their national origin.
Those nations being various countries of latin america, considered in the US as a distinct ethnic group.

"People of this National (Ethnic) background are guilty until proven innocent" is textbook racism. That someone would defend it as somehow not racist is quite damning. That apparently tens of millions of Americans are cheering it on instead of condemning the president and political party spouting it as a basic platform of their political agenda is horrifying.

Edit: fuck it, let's finish this thought.

So a meaningful percentage of the US voting populous is open to Dictator Trump. Another percentage claims that open racism in the name of excluding particular ethnic groups from the country is not racism and is desirable.
Where those two groups overlap, you have a group who wants to exercise dictatorial power in the name of creating a whiter nation.
When people claim Trump and his supporters are white supremacists? It's that group. They are white supremacists.

We can quibble about the size of that group, deriving an accurate snapshot of its size from existing voter data is tricky, but let's be clear: 100% of people who vote for Donald Trump in 2020 are in fact white supremacists.

That's some stretchin' ya got there, Cmdr!

People being detained are not necessarily refugees with any right to asylum. Crossing the border illegally is, um, illegal. That makes people sneaking over criminals. And those things you said were dealt with... weren't, or at least not adequately.

Let's examine the other "logic" in what you said. You didn't establish that Trump is trying to keep out illegal immigrants because most of them aren't white. And you gave no reason whatsoever for your conclusion that 100% of the people who vote Trump 2020 are white supremacists, you just kind of flung that one out there.

And this is what passes for thought for much of the left nowadays. That's kind of sad.

There's a lot to unpack but:

* The refugees ARE being detained, though.
* Is crossing the border something that warrants detainment
* What exactly is the punishment for illegally crossing the border that's fair
* What sort of conditions are warranted

Basically, it's illegal for a lot of people but most people think it should be treated like a speeding ticket and not rape and murder.

It's not being treated like rape and murder. They're being detained, processed, and sometimes deported. That doesn't usually happen for rape and murder.

We're allowed to hold refugees while determining if they are refugees. We don't have to take someone's word for it.

[CharlesPhipps]

It's not being treated like rape and murder. They're being detained, processed, and sometimes deported. That doesn't usually happen for rape and murder.

We're allowed to hold refugees while determining if they are refugees. We don't have to take someone's word for it.

And detainment is criminal in these circumstances. Because it's being arrested and held prisoner for potentially lengthy sentences over a crime of standing on US soil. The issue begins with the very concept of arresting and holding people for trespassing on public property.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Trump fuckin SUCKS!!!

[Admiral X]

So originally I was gonna note that the backlash against Trump isn't strong enough:

I am not surprised at all to see you say this.

We can quibble about the size of that group, deriving an accurate snapshot of its size from existing voter data is tricky, but let's be clear: 100% of people who vote for Donald Trump in 2020 are in fact white supremacists.

Only in your head.

[Admiral X]

And detainment is criminal in these circumstances. Because it's being arrested and held prisoner for potentially lengthy sentences over a crime of standing on US soil. The issue begins with the very concept of arresting and holding people for trespassing on public property.

They aren't being arrested for "trespassing on public property," they're being detained for crossing a national border illegally until their status can be ascertained and to process any asylum claim they might have. More than likely they'll be deported and shipped back south.

Trump fuckin SUCKS!!!

Indeed. He's managed to do far more harm to the Second Amendment than Obama ever did.

[Darth Wedgius]

It's not being treated like rape and murder. They're being detained, processed, and sometimes deported. That doesn't usually happen for rape and murder.

We're allowed to hold refugees while determining if they are refugees. We don't have to take someone's word for it.

And detainment is criminal in these circumstances. Because it's being arrested and held prisoner for potentially lengthy sentences over a crime of standing on US soil. The issue begins with the very concept of arresting and holding people for trespassing on public property.

No, the crime is illegally crossing into US soil. They also aren't being given potentially lengthy sentences, they're being detained and processed. How many of them have been sentenced to five years or more? And if you want that to be decriminalized then you are, de facto, for open borders.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Trump fuckin SUCKS!!!

Indeed. He's managed to do far more harm to the Second Amendment than Obama ever did.

But that's not what I was talking about at all!

[CharlesPhipps]

No, the crime is illegally crossing into US soil. They also aren't being given potentially lengthy sentences, they're being detained and processed. How many of them have been sentenced to five years or more? And if you want that to be decriminalized then you are, de facto, for open borders.

Holding for months is terrible even in good conditions. Even if they're here illegally, which they might not be. Again, they're not necessarily criminals and if it is a crime, it should be a misdemeanor.

[CmdrKing]

Summary of the last page-

Darth: We cannot definitively say that people who vote to reelect a president whose only "successful" acts as president have been acts of white supremacy are also white supremacists.

Also Darth: There is no middle ground between indefinite detention baby prisons and completely open boarders.

It's really quite a trip to see people not realize what they're saying.

Admiral: I'm surprised you disagree with the premise that the correct response to dictatorial inclinations is constant, vociferous blacklash and disapproval.