CmdrKing wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:46 am
The AR-15 has become the weapon of choice of terrorists. It is well established in this country that reacting in ways that are not necessarily effective and perhaps even counterproductive are electoral winners in those instances.
It’s so reliable in fact, The conspiratorially minded would suspect that the Republicans not jumping on this is a sign they support the terrorists and benefit from their terrorism.
That has to be the dumbest rationale I've ever seen given for banning anything. That's like suggesting we ban dogs because Hitler liked them.
Yukaphile wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:10 am
GUNS WERE SIMPLE CREATIONS THEN. They couldn't mow somebody down in six seconds. Also took a minute to reload.
You skirt this issue time and time again to argue semantics. Again, if the Founding Fathers had thought that, don't you think they would have done differently?
No, because I've actually read the stuff that they wrote on the subject. The 2nd was explicitly for defense, and civilians were expected to have the same types of arms that a standing army of the time would have. Organized militias often pooled resources to purchase cannons
We'll never know, sure, but you're really the one clinging to ideologues. Valuing a fucking murder and maiming tool over people's lives. And of course, the fact a gun is the ULTIMATE expression of masculinity has nothing to do with that, aye?
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Pretty obvious who the ideologue here is.
Not really. Best weapon is the mind. It's what built the gun.
Won't do you a lot of good if you're in a situation where you are unarmed and you have someone intent on harming you who is.
Abortion at certain stages doesn't kill the child.
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Wow. And completely misses the point, which was you going on about "life is life."
It is. You subscribe to a very tribal "you can't change the world, so everyone should be allowed a gun" mentality.
I subscribe to the "give people the best chance that they can to defend themselves" mentality.
Hell, I'm sure I could google tons of cases where people accidentally shot themselves or their relatives or failed to protect themselves from "a bad guy with a gun" even WITH a gun. There goes your "good guy with a gun" argument.
No, not at all. Just because a plan crashes every now and then doesn't suddenly invalidate it as a form of transportation. Just because someone fails to defend themselves doesn't suddenly make every other defensive use of a firearm either. The CDC may have tried to bury the report, but the defensive use of firearms far outstrips the criminal use of them.
You achieve this by teaching and learning. And for me, that's why I refuse to buy a gun. I'd tell any kids I had the same. And just hope it works itself out over time.
You can choose to be unarmed, but that is a choice that you have, and you ought to recognize that instead of trying to strip others of that choice.
I didn't say police and military can always protect us. But it is equally foolish to think ordinary citizens could do anything to stop a tyrannical state that is abusing its power given our modern technology.
So you just want to make sure?
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
What I find especially silly is the double-think that says this, and yet also insists that we need to ban all these dangerous weapons of war.
If government went full-blown Nazi Germany and USSR meet and give birth to 1984 on our asses, there'd be resistance, sure, but look at what happened in the German resistance? Absolutely fucking nothing. They couldn't stop those in charge, and it just wound up dooming their people.
Are you now arguing that the people fighting Nazis shouldn't have bothered?
Internet was not that widespread and you fucking know that.
Yeah it was. If I had it in literally the middle of nowhere, North Dakota, it wasn't exactly some rare thing hardly anyone was on. Hell, the media was harping about how dangerous it was back then because you could look up how to make explosives and other dangerous stuff, you know, when they were taking breaks from blaming Marilyn Manson for Columbine.
clearspira wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:52 am
Wait, full-auto is illegal in America? So how did the government manage that achievement despite it being some kind of God-given right to own any kind of gun you want and why can't they do that again?
Because they didn't actually manage to totally ban it - they just made it a very expensive, drawn out process to get one, and is one of the reasons no one trusts anyone when they say they just want some "common sense gun-control."
Mecha82 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:33 am
Considering that Israelian far right wing government has benefited from keeping conflict in Middle East going on and they leader having been educated in US alongside with American far right that wouldn't be that far fetched to think. I guess that wouldn't be fitting to ideals of those conspiratorially minded people that themselves tend to be far right in political ideology or work to protect establishment like conservative talk show host do.
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That's some Alex Jones "they're turning the frogs gay" level shit right there.
CmdrKing wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:09 pm
Well, put another way, Republicans undeniably benefit in multiple ways from white nationalist terror, but it’s impossible to prove the cause and effect (that is, are gun laws lax to foster the terrorism, or are they lax for unrelated reasons and the terrorism is a fringe benefit) of the situation, relegating dwelling too much on it to the realm of conspiracy.
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And that's right up there with it. You know, I'm going to keep this one post in particular in mind the next time someone tries to claim that conspiracy theories are a "right wing" thing.
Yukaphile wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:38 pm
Well, I really do think the NRA is a terrorist organization at this point.
Then you're an idiot. They're a civil rights organization, and not even a terribly good one. I am again amused by the focus on the NRA for this reason.