JK Rowling Backlash

[Mecha82]

Thing about Howard is that unlike Lovecraft he isn't known from racism. So while he might had been racist that doesn't define him among his fellows.

[LittleRaven]

I'm not really sure where the alarmism comes in by TERF.

Really? Have you talked to very many women about these issues? I have. And while the plural of anecdote is not data, I've found that while most women are not TERFS (because most women are not radical feminists) most women hold....decidedly gender critical views. Most women believe men and women are different in fundamental and important ways, and are skeptical that changing gender is as simple as declaring "I feel like a woman today!" (obviously, most transgender people don't find it that easy either, but that's the logical end point of the identity theory) Most women are perfectly willing to be polite about things, and don't really care all that much about what other people do in their own time, but start putting penises in their daughter's locker rooms or forcing battered women's shelters to accept women with beards and they start to get ansy real quick. They believe that women have good reason to be wary of men and to not trust what men say, even (or perhaps especially) if what the man is saying is "I'm not LIKE other men!" They believe that women have had to fight long and hard to establish spaces where they can be separate from men, and they resent it when people they perceive as men start lobbying for access to those spaces.

Intersectionality may be all the rage on campus these days, but it has yet to cross into Main Street.

[Admiral X]

It sure is funny watching the snake eat its own tail.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

It sounds like you're describing conservative feminists. What I meant was I'm not sure why TERFs have such a battle over it, and also why them being this way is a huge deal since as I was saying it directly applies to distinction of issues not necessarily incompatible with consideration to how it's consistent under the patriarchy theory.

[LittleRaven]

What I meant was I'm not sure why TERFs have such a battle over it, and also why them being this way is a huge deal since as I was saying it directly applies to distinction of issues not necessarily incompatible with consideration to how it's consistent under the patriarchy theory.

I'm confused. Do you not understand why TERFs take issue with transwomen in spaces traditionally reserved for women, or do you not understand why TwitLeft is obsessed with TERFs?

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

What I meant was I'm not sure why TERFs have such a battle over it, and also why them being this way is a huge deal since as I was saying it directly applies to distinction of issues not necessarily incompatible with consideration to how it's consistent under the patriarchy theory.

I'm confused. Do you not understand why TERFs take issue with transwomen in spaces traditionally reserved for women, or do you not understand why TwitLeft is obsessed with TERFs?

Ideologically they either don't think that transwoman struggle is worthy of feminist recognition or they think that transwoman are still men that have benefited on the patriarchy. That's all that my query pertained to. I think it's an obscure resentment irrational because men are subject to patriarchy as well so I'd think that would make it not exclusionary.

As far as bathrooms, a lot of people are weary of that, in schools of all places. I wasn't aware TERFs adopted it, would not be surprised, but also it is aside I believe from the ideological endeavors I've heard about on the matter.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Also the general notion of radical feminism itself. That men elicit a control through patriarchy. I was more under the impression that their views were a bit extreme for consideration of even a lot of feminists.

CMDR King can you comment on how pronounced radfem would be in feminism?

[ProfessorDetective]

Being about as racist as anyone born in the early 1900s South was?

Yeah, I mean, Lovecraft kinda stood out as a xenophobe even among his fellows, but Howard?

Oh yeah.Not as bad as Lovecraft, but that guy put the 'phobe' in xenophobe. Howard's works have a LOT of racial purity subtext in his works, which is obvious when you know it's there. He had his moments of fairness and his non-white characters were rarely slobbering monsters like HPL's, but yeah... https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/RobertEHoward

[CmdrKing]

Really? Have you talked to very many women about these issues? I have. And while the plural of anecdote is not data, I've found that while most women are not TERFS (because most women are not radical feminists) most women hold....decidedly gender critical views. Most women believe men and women are different in fundamental and important ways, and are skeptical that changing gender is as simple as declaring "I feel like a woman today!" (obviously, most transgender people don't find it that easy either, but that's the logical end point of the identity theory) Most women are perfectly willing to be polite about things, and don't really care all that much about what other people do in their own time, but start putting penises in their daughter's locker rooms or forcing battered women's shelters to accept women with beards and they start to get ansy real quick. They believe that women have good reason to be wary of men and to not trust what men say, even (or perhaps especially) if what the man is saying is "I'm not LIKE other men!" They believe that women have had to fight long and hard to establish spaces where they can be separate from men, and they resent it when people they perceive as men start lobbying for access to those spaces.

Intersectionality may be all the rage on campus these days, but it has yet to cross into Main Street.

Yeah see that's not what "Gender Critical Feminism" is. Bit like saying Nazism was about restoring the dignity of the German people. That's the pitch, but dig down even the tiniest bit and you'll find immediately it's basically a desire to reset culture in its entirety back to an imagined Golden Age. For the TERFs who rebranded as Gender Critical, this boils down to the idea that patriarchy is inevitable and the only way to advance the cause of women is to leverage their reproductive value. Trans women are therefor a threat, since it offers a class of woman who can offer sexual services without having to risk pregnancy.
If that sounds like the least feminist thing ever, that's because it is.

Heck, since terminology isn't my strong point, I pulled up a basic wikipedia article to refresh myself on the exact technical definition of non-trans-exclusionary Radical Feminism and got this:

Radical feminists seek to abolish the patriarchy in order to "liberate everyone from an unjust society by challenging existing social norms and institutions." [...] "[T]he end goal of feminist revolution must be, unlike that of the first feminist movement, not just the elimination of male privilege but of the sex distinction itself: genital differences between human beings would no longer matter culturally."

Which we can take two things from:
1) basically all mainstream forms of feminism from the second wave onward have strong elements of Radical Feminism (the term Radical here clearly meaning "society changing" or "revolutionary")
2) Being trans-exclusionary is fundamentally contradictory to Radical Feminism. While a radical feminist may consider the notion of gender identity strange since gender shouldn't actually matter in your life, the presumption they can't exist or are somehow fundamentally a threat to feminism is completely incompatible.

Not unlike Nationalism and Socialism...

[clearspira]

The majority of people are very territorial about their sex. Like race, like religion, it is a unifying factor that brings people together. And with transwomen, the argument from TERFs seems to be that you have not suffered like I have. ''You do not have periods, you do not get pregnant, therefore you do not know what it is like to be a woman'' is contradictory in that many naturally born women cannot have children or have periods. Are they ''less of a woman'' as a result? That is a problematic road to go down to say the least. And I would say that a transwoman who has managed to pass to a high degree would be at the same risk of rape or sexual harassment as any other woman so that does not fly either.

Now, the viewpoint I do have sympathy with is letting a transwoman who still has a penis into a woman's bathroom or changing room. I would not want a stranger who still has a dick being around my wife or especially my young daughter when they are potentially in a semi or completely nude state. Too many are not responsible owners of their dicks and I say that as a man. And let be ask a genuine question here: What do we say to that woman or girl who ends up being on the receiving end? ''Sorry you were raped while going for a pee, but y'know, equality and all.''