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Capitalism with taxes.CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:43 pmSocial DemocracyDraco Dracul wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:45 pm Okay what's an outcome that's not communism, not capitalism, and not the end of the world?
UBI Free Trade
Capitalism with attention economics or communism.
Neo-fuedalism and ultranationaism are both capitalist in nature. Anarchy is the end goal of communism, stalinism is at least socialist.clearspira wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:03 pmAnarchy.TGLS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:00 pmNeo-feudalism. Ultranationalism. Stalinism.Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:45 pmOkay what's an outcome that's not communism, not capitalism, and not the end of the world?
I dunno; Feudalism turns property owners into little states. Ultranationalism could have capitalist features, but that's of little comfort to persecuted minority capitalists.Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:45 pmNeo-fuedalism and ultranationaism are both capitalist in nature. Anarchy is the end goal of communism, stalinism is at least socialist.clearspira wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:03 pmAnarchy.TGLS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:00 pmNeo-feudalism. Ultranationalism. Stalinism.Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:45 pmOkay what's an outcome that's not communism, not capitalism, and not the end of the world?
I mean, if you ignore what capitalism is, then yes. Capitalism is a system based around the accumulation of wealth as a social end itself.TGLS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:12 pmCapitalism with taxes.CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:43 pmSocial DemocracyDraco Dracul wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:45 pm Okay what's an outcome that's not communism, not capitalism, and not the end of the world?
UBI Free TradeCapitalism with attention economics or communism.
If the modern United States is a capitalist society, then social democracy (like the nordic model) or some hypothetical state with UBI is also capitalist. Heck, a state with strong unions might be more capitalist than the United States.CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:42 amI mean, if you ignore what capitalism is, then yes. Capitalism is a system based around the accumulation of wealth as a social end itself.TGLS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:12 pmCapitalism with taxes.CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:43 pmSocial DemocracyDraco Dracul wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:45 pm Okay what's an outcome that's not communism, not capitalism, and not the end of the world?
UBI Free TradeCapitalism with attention economics or communism.
Pre-17th century it didn't exist because "trade" and "money" does not a capitalist society make.
Post scarcity capitalism is a contradiction in terms, because capitalism needs scarcity to exist. Where scarcity does not exist, it will create scarcity. That's a big reason why people starve even as we make food enough for 10 billion people and people go homeless in America even as we have millions of vacant homes.TGLS wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 1:05 amIf the modern United States is a capitalist society, then social democracy (like the nordic model) or some hypothetical state with UBI is also capitalist. Heck, a state with strong unions might be more capitalist than the United States.CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:42 amI mean, if you ignore what capitalism is, then yes. Capitalism is a system based around the accumulation of wealth as a social end itself.TGLS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 9:12 pmCapitalism with taxes.CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:43 pmSocial DemocracyDraco Dracul wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:45 pm Okay what's an outcome that's not communism, not capitalism, and not the end of the world?
UBI Free TradeCapitalism with attention economics or communism.
Pre-17th century it didn't exist because "trade" and "money" does not a capitalist society make.
On post-scarcity capitalism: just because the prices of goods collapse away to nearly nothing, it doesn't mean that it's impossible to accumulate wealth. What "wealth" is just stops being yachts & jewelry, and starts being more focused on real estate & artistic patronage.
Really? Because everyone having the ability to have their needs and wants met in abundance sounds like it makes communism simple to achieve. From each according to his ability to each according to their need is much easier when you don't have to ration anything.Madner Kami wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:26 am Every economic system needs scarcity to exist... Producing and trading is literally about someone having something, that someone else needs or wants.
Except we're not anywhere near this point, are we?Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:50 amReally? Because everyone having the ability to have their needs and wants met in abundance
While we aren't post scarcity, we are at a doubt where most of the scarcity is artificial in nature.Madner Kami wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 8:18 amExcept we're not anywhere near this point, are we?Draco Dracul wrote: ↑Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:50 amReally? Because everyone having the ability to have their needs and wants met in abundance