Sfdebris.net

The Romulan Republic wrote: The NRA puts out an add openly characterizing the Left collectively as terrorists and advocating our violent suppression because we aren't loyal to the "President", and what do you do? Why, say how its the Left's fault for driving the poor innocent Rightists to violence, of course.

It never ceases to amaze me how things seem to get twisted around into something else for you. Like there's some kind of ideological filter that magically makes words appear that aren't actually there. All I did was point out that when the violent morons on the left put things on the table, the violent morons on the right will gladly return the favor. Because when one side escalates things, the other will respond in kind.

You've got it backward. There was not major Left-wing support for violence until very recently.

You've got to be kidding.

The gun nut militia types the NRA panders to, however, are the ones who started this. Not the victims.

That isn't what went down at Berkley, or anywhere else that there's been violence.

You will be an apologist for anything the Right does, absolutely anything, be it rape, or jackboots on the throats of everyone who doesn't think like you.

Edit: I will add that, if this seems an overreaction, I consider your shameful attempt to shift blame onto the Left to be simply fuelling the fire, stoking the very fires of partisan hatred that the NRA add is- while two-facedly pretending to deplore that we have gotten to this point.

This is rich coming from someone who's been advocating for violence as a first resort all along while I have very much been arguing against it. It's funny because when I brought up the Years of Lead before, it was basically dismissed outright.

If things keep going the way they are going, a lot of innocent people are going to die, and people like you will bear the lion's share of the blame.

Yes, I am somehow to blame for the violence continuing to escalate simply by pointing out that it will continue to escalate.

Antiboyscout wrote:I guess no one noticed the part where the video states it doesn't matter if the police go in to disperse a riot, that act will be use as propaganda to encourage more rioting.
Your "disloyalty" looks more and more like insurrection every day. The Brown Shirts aren't marching through the streets. The only people I see marching are waving red an black flags.

The historical irony is that the antifa types are actually acting very much like the Brown Shirts did.

Megabob452 wrote:Gabby Giffords for one, you know that Democrat from Arizona, was shot during the rise of the Tea Party six and a half years ago. Oh but I suppose that assassination attempt had nothing to do with the anti-Obama conservative rhetoric at the time, right?

It didn't actually, as the person who tried to kill her was described as being radically left-wing by those who knew him. He was also schizophrenic. But then, if you wanted to make this argument, then the same could be said of that guy that shot up that congressional baseball game.

Oh, and the Right sure is one to talk about disloyalty. For eight years the Right did everything it could to oppose the President, sabotaged the President's agenda at every opportunity, illegitimatize the President by claiming he's a foreigner, filibustered practically every single legislation the President wanted passed, repeatedly brought the government to the brink of shutdown to make the President look bad, and went so far as to deny the President a Supreme Court nomination for over a year. Yet when the Oval Office goes to a Republican, suddenly everyone must be loyal to the President or its insurrection. Where was this mandated loyalty during the Obama years? I suppose it only exists when Republicans are in charge. When Democrats are in charge, disloyalty becomes patriotism.

Yes, the shoe has now been put on the other foot - now watch as the roles reverse while the tune stays the same.

I said it before, I'll say it again: it's not going to matter to the dead on the question of "Who Started It?" It's not going to matter to the broken lives and families, or our broken institutions, or even the end of our current system of governance and its replacement with an authoritarian system (even if it tries to cling to the hollowed-out shell of our Constitution). The only that that's going to matter is that it happened and that everything we know and love has been destroyed or perverted into tools for an authoritarian or totalitarian state. All because both sides became quick to resort to political violence.

And this ad doesn't help matters. It is a further escalation of this problem.

Steve wrote:I said it before, I'll say it again: it's not going to matter to the dead on the question of "Who Started It?" It's not going to matter to the broken lives and families, or our broken institutions, or even the end of our current system of governance and its replacement with an authoritarian system (even if it tries to cling to the hollowed-out shell of our Constitution). The only that that's going to matter is that it happened and that everything we know and love has been destroyed or perverted into tools for an authoritarian or totalitarian state. All because both sides became quick to resort to political violence.

And this ad doesn't help matters. It is a further escalation of this problem.

The crumbling of the system is almost inevitable at this point and the best case is probably a break up of the union into smaller countries. Pure obstructionism has proven to not be a vote loser, sectionalism is in full swing as most of the country no longer matters in the presidential election, there is a significant chance that the presidential election is being swung by active attempts at voters suppression, and we've reached a point where neither side benefits from cooperation. And that's assuming that every single allegation of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia are 100% false.

Trump doesn't have anywhere near as much of the lock-step support of the right as people are talking about. Plenty of Republican politicians have openly criticised him (McCain, Graham, Kasich, Romney, Sasse, Flake, Rubio). Along with with plenty of "never Trump" conservative journalists (Bill Kristol, Ross Douthat, Amanda Carpenter, Ben Domenech, Ana Navarro, r). So there's plenty of people who feel his populism conflicts with mainstream conservatism.

Case in Point:


youtu.be/YsmgPp_nlok

He's far closer to Berlusconi than Hitler, theres no need to freak out

Draco Dracul wrote:

Steve wrote:I said it before, I'll say it again: it's not going to matter to the dead on the question of "Who Started It?" It's not going to matter to the broken lives and families, or our broken institutions, or even the end of our current system of governance and its replacement with an authoritarian system (even if it tries to cling to the hollowed-out shell of our Constitution). The only that that's going to matter is that it happened and that everything we know and love has been destroyed or perverted into tools for an authoritarian or totalitarian state. All because both sides became quick to resort to political violence.

And this ad doesn't help matters. It is a further escalation of this problem.

The crumbling of the system is almost inevitable at this point and the best case is probably a break up of the union into smaller countries. Pure obstructionism has proven to not be a vote loser, sectionalism is in full swing as most of the country no longer matters in the presidential election, there is a significant chance that the presidential election is being swung by active attempts at voters suppression, and we've reached a point where neither side benefits from cooperation. And that's assuming that every single allegation of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia are 100% false.

What makes you so sure people will care if he had some minor help from Russia? It's Russia not Satan.

Agent Vinod wrote:

Draco Dracul wrote:

Steve wrote:I said it before, I'll say it again: it's not going to matter to the dead on the question of "Who Started It?" It's not going to matter to the broken lives and families, or our broken institutions, or even the end of our current system of governance and its replacement with an authoritarian system (even if it tries to cling to the hollowed-out shell of our Constitution). The only that that's going to matter is that it happened and that everything we know and love has been destroyed or perverted into tools for an authoritarian or totalitarian state. All because both sides became quick to resort to political violence.

And this ad doesn't help matters. It is a further escalation of this problem.

The crumbling of the system is almost inevitable at this point and the best case is probably a break up of the union into smaller countries. Pure obstructionism has proven to not be a vote loser, sectionalism is in full swing as most of the country no longer matters in the presidential election, there is a significant chance that the presidential election is being swung by active attempts at voters suppression, and we've reached a point where neither side benefits from cooperation. And that's assuming that every single allegation of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia are 100% false.

What makes you so sure people will care if he had some minor help from Russia? It's Russia not Satan.

well, yes the demos are going to care about democratic subversion even it was Mr. Rogers trying to get captain Picard elected. Are you just trolling now?

Agent Vinod wrote:

Draco Dracul wrote:

Steve wrote:I said it before, I'll say it again: it's not going to matter to the dead on the question of "Who Started It?" It's not going to matter to the broken lives and families, or our broken institutions, or even the end of our current system of governance and its replacement with an authoritarian system (even if it tries to cling to the hollowed-out shell of our Constitution). The only that that's going to matter is that it happened and that everything we know and love has been destroyed or perverted into tools for an authoritarian or totalitarian state. All because both sides became quick to resort to political violence.

And this ad doesn't help matters. It is a further escalation of this problem.

The crumbling of the system is almost inevitable at this point and the best case is probably a break up of the union into smaller countries. Pure obstructionism has proven to not be a vote loser, sectionalism is in full swing as most of the country no longer matters in the presidential election, there is a significant chance that the presidential election is being swung by active attempts at voters suppression, and we've reached a point where neither side benefits from cooperation. And that's assuming that every single allegation of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia are 100% false.

What makes you so sure people will care if he had some minor help from Russia? It's Russia not Satan.

People who don't care now won't care later. This will ultimately undermine our democratic systems by leading to a number of fraudulent elections and will lead to us having leaders beholden to foreign interests over American interests.

People have been talking about the country breaking up for a long time. It seems to be the ultimate Libertarian fantasy - right up there with fully privatized roads and emergency services. I don't think that'll happen. Actually, if anything the opposite might happen, because I can totally see the government using any violence as an excuse to crack down on everyone.

GandALF wrote:

Agent Vinod wrote:

Draco Dracul wrote:

Steve wrote:I said it before, I'll say it again: it's not going to matter to the dead on the question of "Who Started It?" It's not going to matter to the broken lives and families, or our broken institutions, or even the end of our current system of governance and its replacement with an authoritarian system (even if it tries to cling to the hollowed-out shell of our Constitution). The only that that's going to matter is that it happened and that everything we know and love has been destroyed or perverted into tools for an authoritarian or totalitarian state. All because both sides became quick to resort to political violence.

And this ad doesn't help matters. It is a further escalation of this problem.

The crumbling of the system is almost inevitable at this point and the best case is probably a break up of the union into smaller countries. Pure obstructionism has proven to not be a vote loser, sectionalism is in full swing as most of the country no longer matters in the presidential election, there is a significant chance that the presidential election is being swung by active attempts at voters suppression, and we've reached a point where neither side benefits from cooperation. And that's assuming that every single allegation of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia are 100% false.

What makes you so sure people will care if he had some minor help from Russia? It's Russia not Satan.

well, yes the demos are going to care about democratic subversion even it was Mr. Rogers trying to get captain Picard elected. Are you just trolling now?

I never studied it in detail, but they got over Bush vs Gore.

Draco Dracul wrote:

Agent Vinod wrote:

Draco Dracul wrote:

Steve wrote:I said it before, I'll say it again: it's not going to matter to the dead on the question of "Who Started It?" It's not going to matter to the broken lives and families, or our broken institutions, or even the end of our current system of governance and its replacement with an authoritarian system (even if it tries to cling to the hollowed-out shell of our Constitution). The only that that's going to matter is that it happened and that everything we know and love has been destroyed or perverted into tools for an authoritarian or totalitarian state. All because both sides became quick to resort to political violence.

And this ad doesn't help matters. It is a further escalation of this problem.

The crumbling of the system is almost inevitable at this point and the best case is probably a break up of the union into smaller countries. Pure obstructionism has proven to not be a vote loser, sectionalism is in full swing as most of the country no longer matters in the presidential election, there is a significant chance that the presidential election is being swung by active attempts at voters suppression, and we've reached a point where neither side benefits from cooperation. And that's assuming that every single allegation of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia are 100% false.

What makes you so sure people will care if he had some minor help from Russia? It's Russia not Satan.

People who don't care now won't care later. This will ultimately undermine our democratic systems by leading to a number of fraudulent elections and will lead to us having leaders beholden to foreign interests over American interests.

What was undermined? The right had less disadvantage?