Something I want to share

[CmdrKing]

The trouble is that in the arena of civil rights, any position is described as “all or nothing”. The thing to understand here is the position of the average trans rights advocate is extremely compromising! Like the position on trans kids is largely “what doctors, their patients, and the parents decide is the best path forward”. What part of that is extreme. Do you even know what the extreme version of that is? Because bluntly I think parents shouldn’t have a say at all, there are far more bigoted parents in the world who will try and stamp their child out before they acknowledge them as trans, but I can compromise and say that yes, if it puts people at ease to keep parents of very young children in the loop then so be it. Compromise in action!
But our political adversaries ignore that and then claim that letting children be trans at all is extreme. And this pattern repeats over and over. The hard line position is that there shouldn’t be gendered bathrooms, for reasons well beyond just trans people, but instead we coddle the right wing and pretend “trans people aren’t allowed to use public bathrooms” is worthy of being within the political sphere as an idea. So on, so on.

It really has a way of revealing “both sides won’t compromise” as what it is, a way for people who don’t want change to exist to push it off a little longer

[phantom000]

The trouble is that in the arena of civil rights, any position is described as “all or nothing”. The thing to understand here is the position of the average trans rights advocate is extremely compromising! Like the position on trans kids is largely “what doctors, their patients, and the parents decide is the best path forward”. What part of that is extreme. Do you even know what the extreme version of that is? Because bluntly I think parents shouldn’t have a say at all, there are far more bigoted parents in the world who will try and stamp their child out before they acknowledge them as trans, but I can compromise and say that yes, if it puts people at ease to keep parents of very young children in the loop then so be it. Compromise in action!
But our political adversaries ignore that and then claim that letting children be trans at all is extreme. And this pattern repeats over and over. The hard line position is that there shouldn’t be gendered bathrooms, for reasons well beyond just trans people, but instead we coddle the right wing and pretend “trans people aren’t allowed to use public bathrooms” is worthy of being within the political sphere as an idea. So on, so on.

It really has a way of revealing “both sides won’t compromise” as what it is, a way for people who don’t want change to exist to push it off a little longer

I think what a lot of people on the right are afraid of is that kids will be pressured, even inadvertently, to adopt trans identities. Before you scoff and roll your eyes it could be more plausible than you might think. Kids and teenagers, and even some adults, are still trying to understand their own identity. Even a straight, cisgender male, still has to come to terms with what the means for himself and others because that is part of growing up. So how does it impact his understanding of his own gender and sexuality if society constantly implies that he is not cismale even though that is what he identifies as.

Again, this might be more plausible then you realize because I think gender identity has a social element to it. To become an adult is to taken on a certain role which is usually determined by society. So if society says something to the effect of 'a cismale should act like this' and you have a male who does not act that way, does that mean he's trans?

Contrary to what the hardliners say, I honestly don't believe that a cisgender individual would be pressure to transition deliberately but if we are not careful it could happen inadvertently which could be just as damaging as trying to force a trans individual to be cisgendered.

This is why I think, barring a medical reason, transitioning should be something that happens in adulthood. Let them figure it out for themselves before they decide because ultimately they have to figure it out, be they trans, cis or non-binary, because its part of becoming an adult.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

I've read your entire post, and I'm going to scoff and roll my eyes anyway.

What this argument boils down to is "Kids are too young to know that they are trans". You know what that is? It's the "kids are too young to know they're gay" argument reheated and served in a new bowl. You bring up that straight, cisgender kids have a lot to figure out about their identities, but you'd never dream of putting a cisgender kid on puberty blockers to give him time to find out that he's *really* cisgender. No, that is a double standard you reserve exclusively for trans people.

Furthermore, the right's "concerns" about this are a smokescreen. They just don't want kids to grow up trans, period. If some kids end up killing themselves, and then their parents get to bury them in the wrong clothes with a deadname on their headstones, they view that as a bonus.

[hammerofglass]

It's not even just anti-gay, that's literally the old argument against letting kids write with their left hand in school.

[ProfessorDetective]

I've read your entire post, and I'm going to scoff and roll my eyes anyway.

What this argument boils down to is "Kids are too young to know that they are trans". You know what that is? It's the "kids are too young to know they're gay" argument reheated and served in a new bowl. You bring up that straight, cisgender kids have a lot to figure out about their identities, but you'd never dream of putting a cisgender kid on puberty blockers to give him time to find out that he's *really* cisgender. No, that is a double standard you reserve exclusively for trans people.

Furthermore, the right's "concerns" about this are a smokescreen. They just don't want kids to grow up trans, period. If some kids end up killing themselves, and then their parents get to bury them in the wrong clothes with a deadname on their headstones, they view that as a bonus.

Agreed. Same sewage, different septic tank.

They want their kids to grow up into their identical clones in a deranged bid for "immorality". So they can be the last one standing over all others. And they can't have their "investment" "choosing" to be "wrong" and mucking up their plans, now can they?

Plus, they love inflicting cruelty and misery. Helps keep the "losers" from getting any ideas.

I am only SLIGHTLY exaggerating...

[McAvoy]

I think it just boils down to what is considered normal. Normal in local communities, local society, overall society. A cis-man has to act this way to be a man, anything else is abnormal and fighting against that normalcy is not only abnormal but is directly fighting what it is be a man. Same goes for cis-women.

So whether being gay, lesbian, bi, pan, no gender, trans with the combinations of above hits hard against what is considered normal. To them, they think they are combating this this war on normalcy. Which is why there is also such a backlash when it comes to toxic masculinity or the 'harder' points of feminism.

This normalcy I think can be applied to every other argument made. War against Christianity, war against the whites, etc.

That is just my thought on it.

[ProfessorDetective]

I think it just boils down to what is considered normal. Normal in local communities, local society, overall society. A cis-man has to act this way to be a man, anything else is abnormal and fighting against that normalcy is not only abnormal but is directly fighting what it is be a man. Same goes for cis-women.

So whether being gay, lesbian, bi, pan, no gender, trans with the combinations of above hits hard against what is considered normal. To them, they think they are combating this this war on normalcy. Which is why there is also such a backlash when it comes to toxic masculinity or the 'harder' points of feminism.

This normalcy I think can be applied to every other argument made. War against Christianity, war against the whites, etc.

That is just my thought on it.

All of which has been slowly consolidated down into the war against the "Woke Liberals" AKA "most of humanity", at this point.

[McAvoy]

I think it just boils down to what is considered normal. Normal in local communities, local society, overall society. A cis-man has to act this way to be a man, anything else is abnormal and fighting against that normalcy is not only abnormal but is directly fighting what it is be a man. Same goes for cis-women.

So whether being gay, lesbian, bi, pan, no gender, trans with the combinations of above hits hard against what is considered normal. To them, they think they are combating this this war on normalcy. Which is why there is also such a backlash when it comes to toxic masculinity or the 'harder' points of feminism.

This normalcy I think can be applied to every other argument made. War against Christianity, war against the whites, etc.

That is just my thought on it.

All of which has been slowly consolidated down into the war against the "Woke Liberals" AKA "most of humanity", at this point.

Well they wouldn't be called conservatives now would they? Slow to change. Keeping it the way it was.

Also I think when it comes to 'Christianity being attacked' really comes down to self identity. No big shock that these people readily identify themselves as Christian as a core identity. One and the same. You attack Christianity, it's like an attack on them. But of course this creates that sort of victim complex as the person I quoted because in their view the other religions are not being as commonly attacked as the theirs is.

Doesn't matter if they actually do believe in keeping religion out of the government or not, or they frown or straight up condone actions some in their religion commits or that they also know that there is cherry picking or those TV evangelists are frauds. They still feel that they are one and the same when it comes to their religion.

[phantom000]

What this argument boils down to is "Kids are too young to know that they are trans". You know what that is? It's the "kids are too young to know they're gay" argument reheated and served in a new bowl.

If you have people in their 30's and 40's still trying to work these things out, what makes a 15 year old any better qualified?

You bring up that straight, cisgender kids have a lot to figure out about their identities, but you'd never dream of putting a cisgender kid on puberty blockers to give him time to find out that he's *really* cisgender. No, that is a double standard you reserve exclusively for trans people.

I don't see how 'letting them figure it out for themselves' is a double standard.

Furthermore, the right's "concerns" about this are a smokescreen. They just don't want kids to grow up trans, period. If some kids end up killing themselves, and then their parents get to bury them in the wrong clothes with a deadname on their headstones, they view that as a bonus.

Okay, someone like that is a jerk. You will get no argument from me on that point!

But I think there are a lot of people that are leaning more towards the right because and they feel are not being addressed. They might not be anti-trans, but they have questions they feel like the liberals are not bothering to answer them.

[phantom000]

I think it just boils down to what is considered normal. Normal in local communities, local society, overall society. A cis-man has to act this way to be a man, anything else is abnormal and fighting against that normalcy is not only abnormal but is directly fighting what it is be a man. Same goes for cis-women.

This is what I mean by gender having a social aspect to it. Every society has its own perception of what it means to be a man or a woman; so what happens to an individual who does not fit that perception? Would an individual be considered transsexual because they don't fit society's perception of a cis-gendered person?

To me that is just as bad as telling a trans person they have to be cis-gendered, because either way you are telling the individual they have to conform to society's perceptions.