Hamas Attacks Israel

[Madner Kami]

Besides do we even have an example of a 'good facist'?

Same as with Communism. It's an interesting working theory that can actually work well and non-genocidal on a very small scale, but collides with reality when applied on a larger scale.

[Riedquat]

Road to hell is paved with good intentions. A Facist government with the leader doing things with the best intentions most likely will lead to that leader doing things that he thinks is good for society when in reality it isn't. Check and balances.

Besides do we even have an example of a 'good facist'?

It's well said that democracy is the worst system apart from all the others.

One of the problems with good intentions is that what's good is, pretty much by definition, subjective (although there are things that are pretty much universally accepted as good or bad, a few nutters notwithstanding). Even when something is good it needs to be weighed against its downsides, and people are pretty bad at accepting there are any they feel strongly about.

But what any system needs are checks and balances. If those in charge cannot be held to account they WILL go off the rails sooner or later (they might anyway, but at least in some systems there are means in place to remove them). That's the main upside of democracy. Other systems are not completely free of it - a long-established monarchy can be constrained by tradition from doing whatever the hell the king feels like for example, but that constraint is much weaker and far less adaptable.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

It's pretty plainly put from my studies that nondemocratic systems indubitably lead to partialized and inefficient outcomes.

For that matter, it's pretty self apparent that the will of the people is best handled by a system of the people, entailing a system of impartial consideration for the fairness of each and all of its agents.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

All of this relies on assuming that Netanyahu has any good intentions to begin with, when he's made it very clear that his intentions are to turn Gaza into a fucking parking lot. Now we're arguing "is democracy better than Fascism", which is not a discussion that has any place in the overton window to begin with.

Seriously clearspira, what the hell?

[Riedquat]

All of this relies on assuming that Netanyahu has any good intentions to begin with, when he's made it very clear that his intentions are to turn Gaza into a fucking parking lot. Now we're arguing "is democracy better than Fascism", which is not a discussion that has any place in the overton window to begin with.

Seriously clearspira, what the hell?

Your point being? No-one's claimed it's perfect.

And clearspira's last post was on the previous page, if you're responding to him from back then at least quote the post.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

I just can't believe we are debating the validity of Fascism at all.
I already quoted Clearspira once and he hasn't responded yet.

[clearspira]

Facism is always bad. The notion that theoretically a benevolant leader could come up is, frankly, idiotic. Anyone who rises to power in such a system has a support-group of his own, which doesn't get where they are, by being nice people. That's not how humans or human societies work. Heck, it's bold enough to claim, that people would even vote someone into an office of dictator, who's a benevolent leader, over someone who promises them the heavens and the earth and predictably will neither deliver nor care for any of his promises.

The problem with ANY system is actually very simple: humans.

Democracy is flawed because it allows your country to be run by anyone and everyone. Good, bad, evil, the educated, the incompetent, the ists, the bigots, the scum. And those groups only need the majority vote to influence everyone else.

Communism is flawed because there will always be someone more equal than everyone else.

Socialism is flawed because eventually you run out of other people's money.

Anarchy is flawed because those with the biggest guns and muscles will always rise to the top.

Capitalism is flawed because it favours the rich over the poor.

Fascism is flawed because there are no checks and balances and of the way it is usually obtained. The same problems can also be levied at royalty.

Theism is flawed because "obey my holy book or die."

There is no perfect system. Roll on The Culture and being ruled over by AI, I say. At least then we'll have someone else to blame for our problems.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Facism is always bad. The notion that theoretically a benevolant leader could come up is, frankly, idiotic. Anyone who rises to power in such a system has a support-group of his own, which doesn't get where they are, by being nice people. That's not how humans or human societies work. Heck, it's bold enough to claim, that people would even vote someone into an office of dictator, who's a benevolent leader, over someone who promises them the heavens and the earth and predictably will neither deliver nor care for any of his promises.

The problem with ANY system is actually very simple: humans.

Democracy is flawed because it allows your country to be run by anyone and everyone. Good, bad, evil, the educated, the incompetent, the ists, the bigots, the scum. And those groups only need the majority vote to influence everyone else.

Communism is flawed because there will always be someone more equal than everyone else.

Socialism is flawed because eventually you run out of other people's money.

Anarchy is flawed because those with the biggest guns and muscles will always rise to the top.

Capitalism is flawed because it favours the rich over the poor.

Fascism is flawed because there are no checks and balances and of the way it is usually obtained. The same problems can also be levied at royalty.

Theism is flawed because "obey my holy book or die."

There is no perfect system. Roll on The Culture and being ruled over by AI, I say. At least then we'll have someone else to blame for our problems.

There's still a lot of differentiation between Democracy and Fascism. Also; with regards to socialism, the public trust never runs out actually. The economy is always there, and it's not as if you get rid of the circulation of goods and services between businesses and consumers.

The overall assessment disregards time as a factor for consideration. Over time a dictator is going to devolve into all the colorful aspects that your theoretic gladly avoids. Over time, the people will see that the person they elected is a nut and there shall be a healthy competition of rule.

[Riedquat]

There is no perfect system. Roll on The Culture and being ruled over by AI, I say. At least then we'll have someone else to blame for our problems.

Why would an AI be any better than humans?

Personally I'd rather take humans, flaws and all, than life an existence that looks more like mollycoddled pets. And that's if the AI happens to be considerate.

[pilight]

Capitalism is flawed because it favours the rich over the poor

All economic systems favor the rich over the poor. So do all government systems. They'd never get implemented if they didn't.