Hamas Attacks Israel

[Thebestoftherest]

Surprising since South Africa and Isreal aren't anywhere near each other.

[Madner Kami]

Surprising since South Africa and Isreal aren't anywhere near each other.

Antisemitism is fairly prevalent in South Africa.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Seriously? You're going with that angle? Antisemitism isn't the only reason why somebody might oppose bulldozing refugee camps, shooting journalists, and killing entire families.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Seriously? You're going with that angle? Antisemitism isn't the only reason why somebody might oppose bulldozing refugee camps, shooting journalists, and killing entire families.

While it feels like just anybody can be called antisemitic for their assessment on the ordeal, a state body making such a move is quite pronounced and nonetheless peculiar among the other states. Especially states that have much more apparent proxy along the region.

[Madner Kami]

Seriously? You're going with that angle? Antisemitism isn't the only reason why somebody might oppose bulldozing refugee camps, shooting journalists, and killing entire families.

I didn't say it's the only reason. I did suggest it's a primary motivation and looking at South Africa and the people in power there... It is.

[phantom000]

Seriously? You're going with that angle? Antisemitism isn't the only reason why somebody might oppose bulldozing refugee camps, shooting journalists, and killing entire families.

While it feels like just anybody can be called antisemitic for their assessment on the ordeal, a state body making such a move is quite pronounced and nonetheless peculiar among the other states. Especially states that have much more apparent proxy along the region.

One thing that annoys me is this attitude that anti-zionism is the same as anti-semitism. To me that sounds like the package deal fallacy, in both directions; that if you're against zionism that you have to be against Jewish people and if you are jewish than you have to be a zionist. And it's not just in Israel, i've heard that from Americans who make no claim to be either jewish or israeli.

[Madner Kami]

One thing that annoys me is this attitude that anti-zionism is the same as anti-semitism. To me that sounds like the package deal fallacy, in both directions; that if you're against zionism that you have to be against Jewish people and if you are jewish than you have to be a zionist. And it's not just in Israel, i've heard that from Americans who make no claim to be either jewish or israeli.

Yup. Been a member of a board of militarily and politically interested people since the late 90s and there've been a number of discussions that went wild due to different political views. I broke my ties in the wake of the current Israel-Palestine-crisis, due to being labelled as an anti-semite and getting verbally attacked by at least one of the staff-members over it. Why? Because I had the audacity to point out, that Israel killed more than 20.000 Palestinians between 2008 and 2023 and predicted, that Israel is just going to flatten Gaza and annex it, ethnically cleansing the territory in the process.
Well, I feel proven right. Northern Gaza does not exist anymore, Israeli leadership is discussion planting settlements there instead and proudly presents talks with the Congo to deport Palestinians on an, as they said, "encouraged voluntary" basis. All the while the Israeli ambassador to the US openly proclaims that everything in Gaza is linked to Hamas and thus a legitimate target. Mind you, she does have a point, because Hamas made Gaza theirs, but the conclusion shouldn't be: Let's bomb everything and kill everyone. If it goosesteps like a Nazi, looks like a Nazi and talks like a Nazi, it's very unlikely to be a duck. Call it a Nazi and you get labelled as an anti-semite, just because their snazzy uniforms have an armband that carries a Star of David instead of a Swastika...

Either way, the really big problem with that labelling is, that "being a Jew" can uniquely be both a statement about someone's cultural heritage, their nationality, their religion and their population group. You'd need to preface every single instance where Israel, Israeli, Jewish, Jew and so on are mentioned, to even have a slither of hope to not be misread and even then it doesn't guard you from someone intentionally misreading you. You say "Israel is doing bad things"? Oh you actually mean "Jews are doing bad things"! That kind of thinking is so incredibly prevalent, that it becomes hard to figure out who is actually saying what and it's made even worse by the other side of the arguement, because you can't say "Hamas is bad!" without automatically getting labelled as "You must be a fan of Israel!", as you can see in this very thread just a few posts up. This kind of political "debate" is becoming so tiresome these days.

[ProfessorDetective]

One thing that annoys me is this attitude that anti-zionism is the same as anti-semitism. To me that sounds like the package deal fallacy, in both directions; that if you're against zionism that you have to be against Jewish people and if you are jewish than you have to be a zionist. And it's not just in Israel, i've heard that from Americans who make no claim to be either jewish or israeli.

Yup. Been a member of a board of militarily and politically interested people since the late 90s and there've been a number of discussions that went wild due to different political views. I broke my ties in the wake of the current Israel-Palestine-crisis, due to being labelled as an anti-semite and getting verbally attacked by at least one of the staff-members over it. Why? Because I had the audacity to point out, that Israel killed more than 20.000 Palestinians between 2008 and 2023 and predicted, that Israel is just going to flatten Gaza and annex it, ethnically cleansing the territory in the process.
Well, I feel proven right. Northern Gaza does not exist anymore, Israeli leadership is discussion planting settlements there instead and proudly presents talks with the Congo to deport Palestinians on an, as they said, "encouraged voluntary" basis. All the while the Israeli ambassador to the US openly proclaims that everything in Gaza is linked to Hamas and thus a legitimate target. Mind you, she does have a point, because Hamas made Gaza theirs, but the conclusion shouldn't be: Let's bomb everything and kill everyone. If it goosesteps like a Nazi, looks like a Nazi and talks like a Nazi, it's very unlikely to be a duck. Call it a Nazi and you get labelled as an anti-semite, just because their snazzy uniforms have an armband that carries a Star of David instead of a Swastika...

Either way, the really big problem with that labelling is, that "being a Jew" can uniquely be both a statement about someone's cultural heritage, their nationality, their religion and their population group. You'd need to preface every single instance where Israel, Israeli, Jewish, Jew and so on are mentioned, to even have a slither of hope to not be misread and even then it doesn't guard you from someone intentionally misreading you. You say "Israel is doing bad things"? Oh you actually mean "Jews are doing bad things"! That kind of thinking is so incredibly prevalent, that it becomes hard to figure out who is actually saying what and it's made even worse by the other side of the arguement, because you can't say "Hamas is bad!" without automatically getting labelled as "You must be a fan of Israel!", as you can see in this very thread just a few posts up. This kind of political "debate" is becoming so tiresome these days.

Specifically point to Israel's LEAERSHIP and their maniacal goals/tactics as the problem? Same with Palestine and Hamas.

[hammerofglass]

It also bothers me just on a words level because Palestinians are Semites too.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

One thing that annoys me is this attitude that anti-zionism is the same as anti-semitism. To me that sounds like the package deal fallacy, in both directions; that if you're against zionism that you have to be against Jewish people and if you are jewish than you have to be a zionist. And it's not just in Israel, i've heard that from Americans who make no claim to be either jewish or israeli.

Yup. Been a member of a board of militarily and politically interested people since the late 90s and there've been a number of discussions that went wild due to different political views. I broke my ties in the wake of the current Israel-Palestine-crisis, due to being labelled as an anti-semite and getting verbally attacked by at least one of the staff-members over it. Why? Because I had the audacity to point out, that Israel killed more than 20.000 Palestinians between 2008 and 2023 and predicted, that Israel is just going to flatten Gaza and annex it, ethnically cleansing the territory in the process.
Well, I feel proven right. Northern Gaza does not exist anymore, Israeli leadership is discussion planting settlements there instead and proudly presents talks with the Congo to deport Palestinians on an, as they said, "encouraged voluntary" basis. All the while the Israeli ambassador to the US openly proclaims that everything in Gaza is linked to Hamas and thus a legitimate target. Mind you, she does have a point, because Hamas made Gaza theirs, but the conclusion shouldn't be: Let's bomb everything and kill everyone. If it goosesteps like a Nazi, looks like a Nazi and talks like a Nazi, it's very unlikely to be a duck. Call it a Nazi and you get labelled as an anti-semite, just because their snazzy uniforms have an armband that carries a Star of David instead of a Swastika...

Either way, the really big problem with that labelling is, that "being a Jew" can uniquely be both a statement about someone's cultural heritage, their nationality, their religion and their population group. You'd need to preface every single instance where Israel, Israeli, Jewish, Jew and so on are mentioned, to even have a slither of hope to not be misread and even then it doesn't guard you from someone intentionally misreading you. You say "Israel is doing bad things"? Oh you actually mean "Jews are doing bad things"! That kind of thinking is so incredibly prevalent, that it becomes hard to figure out who is actually saying what and it's made even worse by the other side of the arguement, because you can't say "Hamas is bad!" without automatically getting labelled as "You must be a fan of Israel!", as you can see in this very thread just a few posts up. This kind of political "debate" is becoming so tiresome these days.

Specifically point to Israel's LEAERSHIP and their maniacal goals/tactics as the problem? Same with Palestine and Hamas.

Oh so you’re going after the leading administration of a state with a national body of settlers descended from a religious group with a history of being persecuted against. Very nice.