Carlson out at Fox

[Riedquat]

You don't live in the USA. Most of our communities were, intentionally and consciously, designed around cars. Europe's cities partially retain structures that developed organically - Paris is a notable counterexample, it was mostly razed to the ground and rebuilt by urban planners, but still not with modern cars in mind. There are lots of European cities that are meant for people to be able to supply their needs by walking.

In most of the US, you can't. (Not that it's not convenient - it can't be done at all.)

The point is though that I'm assuming they were designed around whatever people happened to use - i.e. cars, rather than the other way around. Car-based design is an effect of the fact that's what people use, rather than a cause.

[ProfessorDetective]

You don't live in the USA. Most of our communities were, intentionally and consciously, designed around cars. Europe's cities partially retain structures that developed organically - Paris is a notable counterexample, it was mostly razed to the ground and rebuilt by urban planners, but still not with modern cars in mind. There are lots of European cities that are meant for people to be able to supply their needs by walking.

In most of the US, you can't. (Not that it's not convenient - it can't be done at all.)

Yep, as some who vehemently DOESN'T drive, it's nearly impossible to do ANYTHING around here. My dream home is one that's within walking distance of a post office, a general store, and a gaming shop. I have crazy dreams.

[hammerofglass]

You don't live in the USA. Most of our communities were, intentionally and consciously, designed around cars. Europe's cities partially retain structures that developed organically - Paris is a notable counterexample, it was mostly razed to the ground and rebuilt by urban planners, but still not with modern cars in mind. There are lots of European cities that are meant for people to be able to supply their needs by walking.

In most of the US, you can't. (Not that it's not convenient - it can't be done at all.)

The point is though that I'm assuming they were designed around whatever people happened to use - i.e. cars, rather than the other way around. Car-based design is an effect of the fact that's what people use, rather than a cause.

It was a deliberate design choice, a lot of cities were basically rebuilt for it when the highway system was built.

Although it's the suburbs that are really bad. Nothing but houses and parking as far as the eye can see and no public transportation.

[Nealithi]

You don't live in the USA. Most of our communities were, intentionally and consciously, designed around cars. Europe's cities partially retain structures that developed organically - Paris is a notable counterexample, it was mostly razed to the ground and rebuilt by urban planners, but still not with modern cars in mind. There are lots of European cities that are meant for people to be able to supply their needs by walking.

In most of the US, you can't. (Not that it's not convenient - it can't be done at all.)

Yep, as some who vehemently DOESN'T drive, it's nearly impossible to do ANYTHING around here. My dream home is one that's within walking distance of a post office, a general store, and a gaming shop. I have crazy dreams.

I told you where to live in NJ.

We even have a very over priced sushi place in walking distance. And no I do not count miles as walking distance. As an older town we even have these things that confuse young folk. Concrete paths by the road we call 'Side walks'.

[Madner Kami]

The point is though that I'm assuming they were designed around whatever people happened to use - i.e. cars, rather than the other way around. Car-based design is an effect of the fact that's what people use, rather than a cause.

Yes and no. The perfect example for what happens is, that a highway is built to take off some pressure for neighbourhood roads. People will start using that highway, because it's fast and convinient. The amount of people using it, will rise until the highway starts to congest with good regularity, at which point the city will add another lane. The highway is fine for a while, but since the capacity is higher, people will do what they feel is more convinient for them and use their cars on the fast highway. Congestion starts again, the city adds another lane, to keep the traffic flowing, rinse repeat until you end up with 16-lane highways and a public transportation that has slowly died, as more and more people used their car, leading to less financial viability for public transportation, meaning canceled routes, meaning more people having to use their car, rinse repeat. And then there's business in neighbourhoods. You're going to do your shopping in the mall outside your neighbourhood, because you can purchase everything there at once, rather than visiting several smaller stores and that fancy highway gets you there fast, so even if you sit in traffic every now and then, you're still faster with driving to that mall. The mall grows because people do business there, stores in your neighbourhood die, because of fewer and fewer customers and because you can't buy XYZ in your neighbourhood anymore, you need to go to the mall and you can buy everything there, so you... rinse repeat.

[Riedquat]

^ completely agree with that, a series of responses to demand, reacting to what the situation is and what people actually do. The mall part of it illustrates the issue perfectly, it's not a deliberate attempt at shutting out the smaller places, it's just the consequence of human behaviour, how people act and respond and so on. Yes, at the end of the day it's all the result of human decisions, but ones that are hard to really avoid, just things like businesses doing what they need to do to stay in business and be successful. We can ameliorate these effects to a certain extent but only by so far without going authoritarian.

No different really from not being able to find a bank if you actually need to go in to one. They've not nearly all closed down out of any deliberate plan, just the consequences of internet banking - doesn't require any design to remove high street banks for banks to supply internet services and people to use them and the high street banks to end up with few people walking through the doors.

[Madner Kami]

Yup, the classic... Someone complains about sitting in the traffic jam. You are the traffic jam. Or complaints about small stores in their town going out of business, while never buying anything there. Yeah well d'uh.

[ProfessorDetective]

You don't live in the USA. Most of our communities were, intentionally and consciously, designed around cars. Europe's cities partially retain structures that developed organically - Paris is a notable counterexample, it was mostly razed to the ground and rebuilt by urban planners, but still not with modern cars in mind. There are lots of European cities that are meant for people to be able to supply their needs by walking.

In most of the US, you can't. (Not that it's not convenient - it can't be done at all.)

Yep, as some who vehemently DOESN'T drive, it's nearly impossible to do ANYTHING around here. My dream home is one that's within walking distance of a post office, a general store, and a gaming shop. I have crazy dreams.

I told you where to live in NJ.

We even have a very over priced sushi place in walking distance. And no I do not count miles as walking distance. As an older town we even have these things that confuse young folk. Concrete paths by the road we call 'Side walks'.

If I can get my savings up to an amount where I feel comfortable quitting my current position (Panera, $12/hr, 24 hrs/wk) and bailing out of TN, I will. And Oaklyn will be on the short list. Maybe I should look into remote work...

[Nealithi]

If I can get my savings up to an amount where I feel comfortable quitting my current position (Panera, $12/hr, 24 hrs/wk) and bailing out of TN, I will. And Oaklyn will be on the short list. Maybe I should look into remote work...

Moving costs I can't make suggestions. But there is a FedEx Ground hub three miles from town paying between $16/hr to $17.90/hr to start for package handlers. 24hrs/wk, more during the December holiday season. I also recommend FedEx as they have excellent healthcare. Four prescriptions filled. Total cost was $0.00

[ProfessorDetective]

If I can get my savings up to an amount where I feel comfortable quitting my current position (Panera, $12/hr, 24 hrs/wk) and bailing out of TN, I will. And Oaklyn will be on the short list. Maybe I should look into remote work...

Moving costs I can't make suggestions. But there is a FedEx Ground hub three miles from town paying between $16/hr to $17.90/hr to start for package handlers. 24hrs/wk, more during the December holiday season. I also recommend FedEx as they have excellent healthcare. Four prescriptions filled. Total cost was $0.00

Tempting. Does it require driving? I don't drive.