Another day, another police beating in America

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

I mean, this is just so sad. If they'd been doing their jobs for the last few decades, maybe we wouldn't be here.

I have many friends from left and right walks of life, and yet, on the issue of the seizure of the Seattle police precinct, I honestly can't see what GOOD it is going to do long-term. Yet unlike the righties, I still feel pity for them, above anything. They're just people fighting for what they believe in, unaware we're just such a tiny cosmic blink in the tapestry of the universe and history, and whether you stand with police or stand with peaceful protesters, or with both, this is precisely why I avoid cable news.

No one planned to seize the East Precinct. No one stormed the building. It wasn't some gonzo charge, a human wave overwhelming them. The police just up and left. They took the guns, left the door unlocked, and walked out. The boarding up and entrance covering? That was the protesters. The police have been back several times since.

They're just pitching a temper tantrum like a three year old. They're like "you think we're doing a bad job? Fine! We'll do nothing! See how you like it then!" On their own, they're making the best possible arguments for defunding and replacing the entire organization possible. It's incredibly apparent that "being an effective police force" is not part of their mission statement.

I stand by my statement. It's depriving people of an essential service, law enforcement. Because I hold to my views that out of 17,000 cops, the vast majority are not the psychotic murderers leftists such as yourself believe them to be.

The ones depriving people of that essential service are the cops.

[Dragon Ball Fan]

I mean, this is just so sad. If they'd been doing their jobs for the last few decades, maybe we wouldn't be here.

I have many friends from left and right walks of life, and yet, on the issue of the seizure of the Seattle police precinct, I honestly can't see what GOOD it is going to do long-term. Yet unlike the righties, I still feel pity for them, above anything. They're just people fighting for what they believe in, unaware we're just such a tiny cosmic blink in the tapestry of the universe and history, and whether you stand with police or stand with peaceful protesters, or with both, this is precisely why I avoid cable news.

No one planned to seize the East Precinct. No one stormed the building. It wasn't some gonzo charge, a human wave overwhelming them. The police just up and left. They took the guns, left the door unlocked, and walked out. The boarding up and entrance covering? That was the protesters. The police have been back several times since.

They're just pitching a temper tantrum like a three year old. They're like "you think we're doing a bad job? Fine! We'll do nothing! See how you like it then!" On their own, they're making the best possible arguments for defunding and replacing the entire organization possible. It's incredibly apparent that "being an effective police force" is not part of their mission statement.

I stand by my statement. It's depriving people of an essential service, law enforcement. Because I hold to my views that out of 17,000 cops, the vast majority are not the psychotic murderers leftists such as yourself believe them to be.

The ones depriving people of that essential service are the cops.

you say you want proof some cops are good, what about the cops that marched with the protestors?

and again, why does it seem that you aren't allowed to say anything negative at all about Black Lives Matter even though certain members have endangered innocents or in one case, shouted that they should kill cops and their kids?

[Rocketboy1313]

you say you want proof some cops are good, what about the cops that marched with the protestors?

and again, why does it seem that you aren't allowed to say anything negative at all about Black Lives Matter even though certain members have endangered innocents or in one case, shouted that they should kill cops and their kids?

There were cops that did march in some limited instances.
They are not a representative number.
That does not change the underlying power structures that make police institutions harmful to various communities... and vacuums for government funding that takes money from many other services that might make much greater positive impact.

I don't know who is telling you that you are not allowed to criticize Black Lives Matter.
Lot's of people are criticizing them. On these boards even.

Generally, you shouldn't speak out against them because they are advocating for racial justice and the removal of harmful systems. Criticizing their angry yelling makes it seem like your priorities are all out of whack and that is why you are being criticized.
"Sure they are marching against a police state that regularly murders members of their community... But they don't have to be so rude about it." sounds fucking absurd doesn't it?

[Dragon Ball Fan]

you say you want proof some cops are good, what about the cops that marched with the protestors?

and again, why does it seem that you aren't allowed to say anything negative at all about Black Lives Matter even though certain members have endangered innocents or in one case, shouted that they should kill cops and their kids?

There were cops that did march in some limited instances.
They are not a representative number.
That does not change the underlying power structures that make police institutions harmful to various communities... and vacuums for government funding that takes money from many other services that might make much greater positive impact.

I don't know who is telling you that you are not allowed to criticize Black Lives Matter.
Lot's of people are criticizing them. On these boards even.

Generally, you shouldn't speak out against them because they are advocating for racial justice and the removal of harmful systems. Criticizing their angry yelling makes it seem like your priorities are all out of whack and that is why you are being criticized.
"Sure they are marching against a police state that regularly murders members of their community... But they don't have to be so rude about it." sounds fucking absurd doesn't it?

again, one BLM member shouted to kill cops AND their kids. was that guy kicked out of the movement? because that guy is obviously a serial killer in the making. under no circumstances would a normal person advocate murdering children.

and wile there are efforts to stop hate crimes against black people but isn't this whole obesstion with systematic oppression thing going to encourage hate crimes against white people like the "fuck white people!" incident from 2017?

[Rocketboy1313]

again, one BLM member shouted to kill cops AND their kids. was that guy kicked out of the movement? because that guy is obviously a serial killer in the making. under no circumstances would a normal person advocate murdering children.

and wile there are efforts to stop hate crimes against black people but isn't this whole obesstion with systematic oppression thing going to encourage hate crimes against white people like the "fuck white people!" incident from 2017?

Well, the Black Lives Matter movement is made of thousands and thousands of people who are not funded, trained, or held to any standard other than that of a typical citizen.
I don't know what review board you are envisioning that would kick that guy out of a movement.
Also, if you are going to keep bringing up this guy, you should probably link to it, because alluding to something is kind of meaningless. The rest of your characterization is weird and not worth responding to.

No, the desire to end systemic oppression is not going to encourage hate crimes against white people.
I don't know what incident from 2017 you are talking about.

I must point out, a single incident is not enough to show a pattern, you have to have substantial shifts to illustrate something is happening. When you point to a single obscure thing with no details, that is not a trend nor is it meaningful evidence, it is an anecdote.

[Dragon Ball Fan]

again, one BLM member shouted to kill cops AND their kids. was that guy kicked out of the movement? because that guy is obviously a serial killer in the making. under no circumstances would a normal person advocate murdering children.

and wile there are efforts to stop hate crimes against black people but isn't this whole obesstion with systematic oppression thing going to encourage hate crimes against white people like the "fuck white people!" incident from 2017?

Well, the Black Lives Matter movement is made of thousands and thousands of people who are not funded, trained, or held to any standard other than that of a typical citizen.
I don't know what review board you are envisioning that would kick that guy out of a movement.
Also, if you are going to keep bringing up this guy, you should probably link to it, because alluding to something is kind of meaningless. The rest of your characterization is weird and not worth responding to.

No, the desire to end systemic oppression is not going to encourage hate crimes against white people.
I don't know what incident from 2017 you are talking about.

I must point out, a single incident is not enough to show a pattern, you have to have substantial shifts to illustrate something is happening. When you point to a single obscure thing with no details, that is not a trend nor is it meaningful evidence, it is an anecdote.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Chicago_torture_incident

couldn't find a clip of the other thing.

but there is even this idea going around that it is impossible to be racist against white people because racism's supposedly about power and not about supremacy like the dictionary says.

also, the riots have caused deaths of innocents like that retired police captain who was black, by the way, and his memorial criticizes the hypocrisy of the protestors.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

again, one BLM member shouted to kill cops AND their kids. was that guy kicked out of the movement? because that guy is obviously a serial killer in the making. under no circumstances would a normal person advocate murdering children.

and wile there are efforts to stop hate crimes against black people but isn't this whole obesstion with systematic oppression thing going to encourage hate crimes against white people like the "fuck white people!" incident from 2017?

Well, the Black Lives Matter movement is made of thousands and thousands of people who are not funded, trained, or held to any standard other than that of a typical citizen.
I don't know what review board you are envisioning that would kick that guy out of a movement.
Also, if you are going to keep bringing up this guy, you should probably link to it, because alluding to something is kind of meaningless. The rest of your characterization is weird and not worth responding to.

No, the desire to end systemic oppression is not going to encourage hate crimes against white people.
I don't know what incident from 2017 you are talking about.

I must point out, a single incident is not enough to show a pattern, you have to have substantial shifts to illustrate something is happening. When you point to a single obscure thing with no details, that is not a trend nor is it meaningful evidence, it is an anecdote.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Chicago_torture_incident

couldn't find a clip of the other thing.

but there is even this idea going around that it is impossible to be racist against white people because racism's supposedly about power and not about supremacy like the dictionary says.

also, the riots have caused deaths of innocents like that retired police captain who was black, by the way, and his memorial criticizes the hypocrisy of the protestors.

As far as I can tell, officiated standards of racism just involve individual treatment either way despite power dynamic. The power differential isn't really applied to that as far as private matters are concerned. It's only more recently that people are trying to normalize recognition of the power dynamic, which will go so far as people advocating for it to be focused on predominantly when discussing racism. Needless to say there is a lot of controversy over it.

It's like the Hawaiian nationalist movement. There's a lot of warranted activism out there over the illegitimate throw of the kingdom, to which point you do get people advocating so far as the return of the islands to people with indigenous blood. There's plenty of people that are sympathetic to the movement against illegal annexation, though most kind of agree that eschewing everybody out is probably not gonna happen.

[Dragon Ball Fan]

and I want to know because it seems like no one is talking about it, do the protestors even care that the riots have caused innocent people to die, is anything being done to stop the riots from killing people?

also, didn't the riots just recently prevent police from saving someone's life?

[Dragon Ball Fan]

again, one BLM member shouted to kill cops AND their kids. was that guy kicked out of the movement? because that guy is obviously a serial killer in the making. under no circumstances would a normal person advocate murdering children.

and wile there are efforts to stop hate crimes against black people but isn't this whole obesstion with systematic oppression thing going to encourage hate crimes against white people like the "fuck white people!" incident from 2017?

Well, the Black Lives Matter movement is made of thousands and thousands of people who are not funded, trained, or held to any standard other than that of a typical citizen.
I don't know what review board you are envisioning that would kick that guy out of a movement.
Also, if you are going to keep bringing up this guy, you should probably link to it, because alluding to something is kind of meaningless. The rest of your characterization is weird and not worth responding to.

No, the desire to end systemic oppression is not going to encourage hate crimes against white people.
I don't know what incident from 2017 you are talking about.

I must point out, a single incident is not enough to show a pattern, you have to have substantial shifts to illustrate something is happening. When you point to a single obscure thing with no details, that is not a trend nor is it meaningful evidence, it is an anecdote.

also, it's the narrative that ALL white people are evil that I'm worried will cause more white hate crimes.

and this idea that all white people are privileged and the oppressors ignores that certain ethnic groups, wile hectically white, have historically, faced much of the same problems as non whites, like the Irish and Italians. there are still some anti-Irish sentiments to this day. and I speak as someone of Irish descent.

edit: I did forget that arrests have been made on those who have murdered innocent people but that doesn't solve all my problems.

[Captain Crimson]

I stand by my statement. It's depriving people of an essential service, law enforcement. Because I hold to my views that out of 17,000 cops, the vast majority are not the psychotic murderers leftists such as yourself believe them to be.

You know I've discussed, at length, in this thread, all of the structural problems of the police.

And you've come up with this strawman. Really. Is that what you really got from my words?

If so, you're a waste of everyone's time.

I don't like depriving people of law enforcement, nor would I support going in guns blazing to take the precinct back like I hear some hard righties saying. This is going to accomplish nothing long-term, when people are this opposed to the idea of incremental change and the media's dogged need for ratings pushes that perception out of proportion. Besides, I kinda think that boat sailed four years ago.