Sarah Jeong and The NY Times

[TGLS]

Yeah, they're really digging. Going back, oh, a month. Can't hold people responsible for stuff they said less than 8 weeks ago.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Oh please. He wouldn't even put his business interests into a blind trust! He said that Nazis were "very fine people"--actual Hitler-hailing swastika-waving Nazis who murdered a woman by ramming a car into a crowd! That is ABSOLUTELY new. He's crass, confrontational, and he loves media outlets that fellate him (like Fox and Breitbart), and if you tell me Fox isn't a major news outlet I've got a bridge to sell you.

I believe that's inaccurate. He never called out Nazis as "very fine people," he just said there were "very fine people" on both sides. The people protesting the removal of the statues were not all Nazis, or even all white supremacists.

If you are in a protest with a bunch of people doing the Heil Hitler salute, chanting "Jews will not replace us!" and you don't say "what the fuck guys?" and drop your tiki torch, you ARE a Nazi. How much more blatant does it need to be?

If you are in a protest with a bunch of people assaulting those with different opinions and you don't take off your mask and go "what the fuck guys?" and drop your bicycle lock, you ARE a totalitarian.

Or we could, you know, try to be rational. It's worked for some people in the past.

That is what-aboutism and you KNOW it. Antifa could have set fire to frelling kittens while jerking off and it wouldn't change that OUR PRESIDENT called the Nazis "very fine people". That was an entire movement of Nazis protesting the statue removal.

NOTHING bad that the political opponents of Neo Nazis do will change the fact that Neo Nazis are actual honest-to-gods NAZIS here decades after the death of Hitler and collapse of the Reich. Comprende? It's not Godwin's law if they are REAL LIFE NAZIS, with Swastikas and Heil Hitler salutes.

[Karha of Honor]

Oh please. He wouldn't even put his business interests into a blind trust! He said that Nazis were "very fine people"--actual Hitler-hailing swastika-waving Nazis who murdered a woman by ramming a car into a crowd! That is ABSOLUTELY new. He's crass, confrontational, and he loves media outlets that fellate him (like Fox and Breitbart), and if you tell me Fox isn't a major news outlet I've got a bridge to sell you.

I believe that's inaccurate. He never called out Nazis as "very fine people," he just said there were "very fine people" on both sides. The people protesting the removal of the statues were not all Nazis, or even all white supremacists.

If you are in a protest with a bunch of people doing the Heil Hitler salute, chanting "Jews will not replace us!" and you don't say "what the fuck guys?" and drop your tiki torch, you ARE a Nazi. How much more blatant does it need to be?

If you are in a protest with a bunch of people assaulting those with different opinions and you don't take off your mask and go "what the fuck guys?" and drop your bicycle lock, you ARE a totalitarian.

Or we could, you know, try to be rational. It's worked for some people in the past.

That is what-aboutism and you KNOW it. Antifa could have set fire to frelling kittens while jerking off and it wouldn't change that OUR PRESIDENT called the Nazis "very fine people". That was an entire movement of Nazis protesting the statue removal.

NOTHING bad that the political opponents of Neo Nazis do will change the fact that Neo Nazis are actual honest-to-gods NAZIS here decades after the death of Hitler and collapse of the Reich. Comprende? It's not Godwin's law if they are REAL LIFE NAZIS, with Swastikas and Heil Hitler salutes.

There were also Oathkeepers there.

[Darth Wedgius]

Oh please. He wouldn't even put his business interests into a blind trust! He said that Nazis were "very fine people"--actual Hitler-hailing swastika-waving Nazis who murdered a woman by ramming a car into a crowd! That is ABSOLUTELY new. He's crass, confrontational, and he loves media outlets that fellate him (like Fox and Breitbart), and if you tell me Fox isn't a major news outlet I've got a bridge to sell you.

I believe that's inaccurate. He never called out Nazis as "very fine people," he just said there were "very fine people" on both sides. The people protesting the removal of the statues were not all Nazis, or even all white supremacists.

If you are in a protest with a bunch of people doing the Heil Hitler salute, chanting "Jews will not replace us!" and you don't say "what the fuck guys?" and drop your tiki torch, you ARE a Nazi. How much more blatant does it need to be?

If you are in a protest with a bunch of people assaulting those with different opinions and you don't take off your mask and go "what the fuck guys?" and drop your bicycle lock, you ARE a totalitarian.

Or we could, you know, try to be rational. It's worked for some people in the past.

That is what-aboutism and you KNOW it. Antifa could have set fire to frelling kittens while jerking off and it wouldn't change that OUR PRESIDENT called the Nazis "very fine people". That was an entire movement of Nazis protesting the statue removal.

NOTHING bad that the political opponents of Neo Nazis do will change the fact that Neo Nazis are actual honest-to-gods NAZIS here decades after the death of Hitler and collapse of the Reich. Comprende? It's not Godwin's law if they are REAL LIFE NAZIS, with Swastikas and Heil Hitler salutes.

That's not what aboutism, that's pointing out the flaw in your "logic." Your response was that if people didn't object to the Nazis, they were Nazis. That's not accurate. Not objecting to a group does not mean you are part of that group.

Also, Trump didn't call Nazis "very fine people." Trump said there were "very fine people" on both sides, and not everyone on the right side was a Nazi, Neo or otherwise. Not everyone was white supremacist or a white identitarian.

Read what I wrote to unknownsample about cars for more information on logic and sets. I thought it was very good.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Would you have an easier time if I said "white nationalists" instead of "Nazis"?

I just feel that your standards for the burden of evidence are unreasonably steep. And there weren't very fine people on both sides. There were people celebrating a traitor who lost a war that they still haven't gotten over, and there were the people who weren't.

[Antiboyscout]

Would you have an easier time if I said "white nationalists" instead of "Nazis"?

I just feel that your standards for the burden of evidence are unreasonably steep. And there weren't very fine people on both sides. There were people celebrating a traitor who lost a war that they still haven't gotten over, and there were the people who weren't.

My side is the default

The other side is the worst possible example I can find applied to the whole group.

[Darth Wedgius]

Would you have an easier time if I said "white nationalists" instead of "Nazis"?

No, because not everyone on the don't-remove-the-statues side was a white nationalist, either.

I just feel that your standards for the burden of evidence are unreasonably steep.
And there weren't very fine people on both sides. There were people celebrating a traitor who lost a war that they still haven't gotten over, and there were the people who weren't.

And you are welcome to your opinions, but I see no reason to consider them important. If you can come up with a standard that applies evenly to both sides, you will have made some progress, IMO.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Would you have an easier time if I said "white nationalists" instead of "Nazis"?

No, because not everyone on the don't-remove-the-statues side was a white nationalist, either.

I just feel that your standards for the burden of evidence are unreasonably steep.
And there weren't very fine people on both sides. There were people celebrating a traitor who lost a war that they still haven't gotten over, and there were the people who weren't.

And you are welcome to your opinions, but I see no reason to consider them important. If you can come up with a standard that applies evenly to both sides, you will have made some progress, IMO.

To be absolutely clear and sure that I understand you, are you saying that you think the group of protesters, the ones with the torches and stuff, were not all white nationalists?

[Darth Wedgius]

Would you have an easier time if I said "white nationalists" instead of "Nazis"?

No, because not everyone on the don't-remove-the-statues side was a white nationalist, either.

I just feel that your standards for the burden of evidence are unreasonably steep.
And there weren't very fine people on both sides. There were people celebrating a traitor who lost a war that they still haven't gotten over, and there were the people who weren't.

And you are welcome to your opinions, but I see no reason to consider them important. If you can come up with a standard that applies evenly to both sides, you will have made some progress, IMO.

To be absolutely clear and sure that I understand you, are you saying that you think the group of protesters, the ones with the torches and stuff, were not all white nationalists?

The torch-carriers I don't know about. But my understanding is that not everyone there to protest removal of the Confederate statues was a white nationalist.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

Would you have an easier time if I said "white nationalists" instead of "Nazis"?

No, because not everyone on the don't-remove-the-statues side was a white nationalist, either.

I just feel that your standards for the burden of evidence are unreasonably steep.
And there weren't very fine people on both sides. There were people celebrating a traitor who lost a war that they still haven't gotten over, and there were the people who weren't.

And you are welcome to your opinions, but I see no reason to consider them important. If you can come up with a standard that applies evenly to both sides, you will have made some progress, IMO.

To be absolutely clear and sure that I understand you, are you saying that you think the group of protesters, the ones with the torches and stuff, were not all white nationalists?

The torch-carriers I don't know about. But my understanding is that not everyone there to protest removal of the Confederate statues was a white nationalist.

On the night. Of the protest. The people protesting at that event, on that night. Not "everyone who has ever protested a statue removal", but that statue, that time, and that place.