Portland Protestors abducted by secret police

[Antiboyscout]

I was talking about postmodernism.
and it seems like TGLS is backing me up on that.

Okay. It's a philosophy, that, um... do you actually recognize any of the names on that Wikipedia page? Go on, tell me. I don't.

And that's what the entire "american left" believes in.

Yeah okay.

Can you name a modernist philosopher? Not an artist, a philosopher. I can't. Doesn't mean it isn't a philosophy that many people follow.

[TGLS]

Karl Marx, John Stuart Mill, Immanuel Kant, Friedrich Nietzsche, John-Paul Sartre. Those are the top of the head ones.

---

Now, before I leave, just something fairly important about terminology. When talking about modern and postmodern, several definitions get wrapped around each other.

With modern, the is the colloquial use of "Our Modern World", using the term identically to contemporary. Then there is using modern to refer to a specific era of history, beginning around the Protestant Reformation and the Age of Exploration, and ending with the A-Bomb (but this is debatable)†. Then there is Modernity, which appears to be defined largely by critics.

Postmodern can be used to refer to the post-WW2 period, but is more often used to refer to a movement in Philosophy and similar movements in the Arts. The tricky part is that while Postmodernism refers to a specific philosophy (like Derrida and Foucault), there doesn't appear to be a similar Modernist philosophy.

Given that postmodernism gets attacked by intellectuals for being dead air* and those who see it as a representation of moral relativism and other ivory tower ideas they don't like, I wonder if there might be another definition in there.


* Two examples, the Sokal Affair and:

John Searle once told me about a conversation he had with the late Michel Foucault: "Michel, you're so clear in conversation; why is your written work so obscure?" To which Foucault replied, "That's because, in order to be taken seriously by French philosophers, twenty-five percent of what you write has to be impenetrable nonsense." I have coined a term for this tactic, in honour of Foucault's candor: eumerdification.

† This is why if I wrote Trek I would have had everyone saying Modern the way we say Ancient.

[Antiboyscout]

Karl Marx, John Stuart Mill, Immanuel Kant, Friedrich Nietzsche, John-Paul Sartre. Those are the top of the head ones.

I know Marx was a materialist. I suppose materialism could be placed under the umbrella of modernism.

Of course, Marx's ideas have been so bastardized in the modern day by postmodernists to the point it barely resembles itself. The rejection of material outcomes for nebulous "justice" and the rejection of the inevitable workers revolution for social consciousness and identity groups is indicative of modern communism. I mean, it was the only way for communism to survive in the modern day.

The body is gone, but the spirit is there. Very postmodernist.

[Rocketboy1313]

I know Marx was a materialist. I suppose materialism could be placed under the umbrella of modernism.

Of course, Marx's ideas have been so bastardized in the modern day by postmodernists to the point it barely resembles itself. The rejection of material outcomes for nebulous "justice" and the rejection of the inevitable workers revolution for social consciousness and identity groups is indicative of modern communism. I mean, it was the only way for communism to survive in the modern day.

The body is gone, but the spirit is there. Very postmodernist.

All of this is nonsense.

[Antiboyscout]

I know Marx was a materialist. I suppose materialism could be placed under the umbrella of modernism.

Of course, Marx's ideas have been so bastardized in the modern day by postmodernists to the point it barely resembles itself. The rejection of material outcomes for nebulous "justice" and the rejection of the inevitable workers revolution for social consciousness and identity groups is indicative of modern communism. I mean, it was the only way for communism to survive in the modern day.

The body is gone, but the spirit is there. Very postmodernist.

All of this is nonsense.

"Postmodernism is associated with relativism and a focus on ideology in the maintenance of economic and political power."

"Postmodernists are generally "skeptical of explanations which claim to be valid for all groups, cultures, traditions, or races," and describe truth as relative."

[J!!]

youtu.be/uglv-fV1CqI

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

So, people with no badges and no ID are still grabbing people off the street in portland, hauling them into unmarked vans, and then shaking them up for a few hours before charging them with nothing.

Our Glorious Leader is threatening to do the same thing to other cities that resist him. Of course it's still a tossup as to whether the right will try to justify this directly, claim that the secret police have nothing to do with the president who sends them out, or blame it out outside anti-fascist agitators.

[GreyICE]

So, people with no badges and no ID are still grabbing people off the street in portland, hauling them into unmarked vans, and then shaking them up for a few hours before charging them with nothing.

Our Glorious Leader is threatening to do the same thing to other cities that resist him. Of course it's still a tossup as to whether the right will try to justify this directly, claim that the secret police have nothing to do with the president who sends them out, or blame it out outside anti-fascist agitators.

Well lets see. The right wing playbook is basically drawn from certain dubious sources that teach never defend, always attack. So option 1 will be the Gul Dukat approach - "If you only would stop doing these terrible things, I wouldn't have to round up and execute all these Bajorans". Ignoring that there are reasons that the Bajorans don't like the Cardassian occupation (such as them rounding up and murdering random Bajorans), and that even if terrible things are done, that doesn't justify every possible response.

Option 2 is underway in Seattle, where the two DHS planes are "nobody knows".

Option 3 took a big blow after Trump called the Catholic pacifist an "Antifa agent looking to destroy police equipment" but we'll see how it goes. Trump has about burned out everyone by just being such horseshit that that's almost forgotten about.

[Antiboyscout]

Well lets see. The right wing playbook is basically drawn from certain dubious sources that teach never defend, always attack. So option 1 will be the Gul Dukat approach - "If you only would stop doing these terrible things, I wouldn't have to round up and execute all these Bajorans". Ignoring that there are reasons that the Bajorans don't like the Cardassian occupation (such as them rounding up and murdering random Bajorans), and that even if terrible things are done, that doesn't justify every possible response.

Option 2 is underway in Seattle, where the two DHS planes are "nobody knows".

Option 3 took a big blow after Trump called the Catholic pacifist an "Antifa agent looking to destroy police equipment" but we'll see how it goes. Trump has about burned out everyone by just being such horseshit that that's almost forgotten about.

Stop pretending like the rioters haven't set that courthouse on fire and destroyed locks and chains on the doors to bust in, multiple times. This is defense.

I don't care if you call yourself a pacifist. If you are providing cover for people who are destroying and instigating, you are guilty by association.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

I was talking about postmodernism.
and it seems like TGLS is backing me up on that.

Okay. It's a philosophy, that, um... do you actually recognize any of the names on that Wikipedia page? Go on, tell me. I don't.

And that's what the entire "american left" believes in.

Yeah okay.

Can you name a modernist philosopher? Not an artist, a philosopher. I can't. Doesn't mean it isn't a philosophy that many people follow.

Sartre

Karl Marx, John Stuart Mill, Immanuel Kant, Friedrich Nietzsche, John-Paul Sartre. Those are the top of the head ones.

I know Marx was a materialist. I suppose materialism could be placed under the umbrella of modernism.

Of course, Marx's ideas have been so bastardized in the modern day by postmodernists to the point it barely resembles itself. The rejection of material outcomes for nebulous "justice" and the rejection of the inevitable workers revolution for social consciousness and identity groups is indicative of modern communism. I mean, it was the only way for communism to survive in the modern day.

The body is gone, but the spirit is there. Very postmodernist.

Material Marxists are usually objectivist anarchists that don't understand institutional systems, while postmodern Marxists will often by partial to outcome events without taking into account organic features.