The Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[Frustration]

even some Ukrainians who 'just want the good old Soviet days back.'

The good old days when Stalin starved millions of Ukrainians while warehouses full of food were shipped east? Even given my contempt for human intelligence in general, I find it hard to believe any native would look fondly at Russia. (Which is not to deny that can happen, I just can't quite bring myself to *believe* it.)

[TGLS]

Even given my contempt for human intelligence in general, I find it hard to believe any native would look fondly at Russia. (Which is not to deny that can happen, I just can't quite bring myself to *believe* it.)

From a poll in 2013, about 13% of Ukrainians disagree with the notion that the famine was the result of Soviet authorities, and about 26% of Ukrainians disagreed with the notion that the Holodomor was a deliberate attempt to destroy the Ukrainian nation. And beyond that, there's probably more people who would agree with something like, "Stalin's era was bad, but afterward things got better."

[Frustration]

The Russians have started their offensive in Eastern Ukraine.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ru ... uxbndlbing

The Russian military forcibly removed over 100 children from Mariupol, many taken from hospitals without parents, the Crimean Human Rights Group reported, citing Mariupol's mayoral adviser Petro Andryushchenko.

Oh yeah, such great humanitarian concerns the Russians have. If the parents had been present, what are the chances that at least the fathers would have been shot?

[Frustration]

From a poll in 2013, about 13% of Ukrainians disagree with the notion that the famine was the result of Soviet authorities, and about 26% of Ukrainians disagreed with the notion that the Holodomor was a deliberate attempt to destroy the Ukrainian nation.

The idea that it happened by accident, rather than intention, doesn't strike me as being particularly comforting.

I wonder what a hypothetical poll conducted today would show.

[Riedquat]

There is supposed to be a strong Pro-Russian movement in Eastern Ukraine, a mix of Russian descendants from the Soviet Era and even some Ukrainians who 'just want the good old Soviet days back.' If they had focused on annexing those areas, moving troops to occupy but then stop and only fight Ukrainian forces if they are actively trying to push the Russians out I think NATO would be more hesitant to get involved right now. Not that NATO would be ignoring the situation, just that they would have less of an excuse to get involved.

Was rather than is. I rather suspect that what Russian support there may have been there has largely vanished.

I agree Russia would probably have had less of a reaction from the West if that's all they'd concentrated on at first. But Putin blundered, firstly by trying to bite off far more than he could chew, and secondly by grossly under-estimating the response it would get. But he's too egocentric to back down (and in any case he'll probably be removed pretty quickly if he did right now). What can he actually achieve now though, other than to keep making things worse to stave off his downfall for a little longer? Possibly one push to try to grab as much as he can and call that a victory.

[clearspira]

There is supposed to be a strong Pro-Russian movement in Eastern Ukraine, a mix of Russian descendants from the Soviet Era and even some Ukrainians who 'just want the good old Soviet days back.' If they had focused on annexing those areas, moving troops to occupy but then stop and only fight Ukrainian forces if they are actively trying to push the Russians out I think NATO would be more hesitant to get involved right now. Not that NATO would be ignoring the situation, just that they would have less of an excuse to get involved.

Was rather than is. I rather suspect that what Russian support there may have been there has largely vanished.

I agree Russia would probably have had less of a reaction from the West if that's all they'd concentrated on at first. But Putin blundered, firstly by trying to bite off far more than he could chew, and secondly by grossly under-estimating the response it would get. But he's too egocentric to back down (and in any case he'll probably be removed pretty quickly if he did right now). What can he actually achieve now though, other than to keep making things worse to stave off his downfall for a little longer? Possibly one push to try to grab as much as he can and call that a victory.

VE Day (Victory in Europe Day) in May is supposedly going to be one to watch. Many analysts think Putin is going to try and make peace before that and call it a win for the Great Liberator of Nazis that is Putin.

[cilantro]

There is supposed to be a strong Pro-Russian movement in Eastern Ukraine, a mix of Russian descendants from the Soviet Era and even some Ukrainians who 'just want the good old Soviet days back.' If they had focused on annexing those areas, moving troops to occupy but then stop and only fight Ukrainian forces if they are actively trying to push the Russians out I think NATO would be more hesitant to get involved right now. Not that NATO would be ignoring the situation, just that they would have less of an excuse to get involved.

Was rather than is. I rather suspect that what Russian support there may have been there has largely vanished.

I agree Russia would probably have had less of a reaction from the West if that's all they'd concentrated on at first. But Putin blundered, firstly by trying to bite off far more than he could chew, and secondly by grossly under-estimating the response it would get. But he's too egocentric to back down (and in any case he'll probably be removed pretty quickly if he did right now). What can he actually achieve now though, other than to keep making things worse to stave off his downfall for a little longer? Possibly one push to try to grab as much as he can and call that a victory.

VE Day (Victory in Europe Day) in May is supposedly going to be one to watch. Many analysts think Putin is going to try and make peace before that and call it a win for the Great Liberator of Nazis that is Putin.

In Putin's mind, he thinks he is winning (and this is primarily due to the fact that he, like most dictators, surrounds himself with yes men that won't tell him the truth) but he is not. His forces are doing a slow job and they won't be done by May 9 (or even by the Russian calendar which is two weeks behind our calendar). Nor would he just stop on May 9. Instead, he is looking to expand this war outside of Ukraine.

[McAvoy]

There is supposed to be a strong Pro-Russian movement in Eastern Ukraine, a mix of Russian descendants from the Soviet Era and even some Ukrainians who 'just want the good old Soviet days back.' If they had focused on annexing those areas, moving troops to occupy but then stop and only fight Ukrainian forces if they are actively trying to push the Russians out I think NATO would be more hesitant to get involved right now. Not that NATO would be ignoring the situation, just that they would have less of an excuse to get involved.

Was rather than is. I rather suspect that what Russian support there may have been there has largely vanished.

I agree Russia would probably have had less of a reaction from the West if that's all they'd concentrated on at first. But Putin blundered, firstly by trying to bite off far more than he could chew, and secondly by grossly under-estimating the response it would get. But he's too egocentric to back down (and in any case he'll probably be removed pretty quickly if he did right now). What can he actually achieve now though, other than to keep making things worse to stave off his downfall for a little longer? Possibly one push to try to grab as much as he can and call that a victory.

VE Day (Victory in Europe Day) in May is supposedly going to be one to watch. Many analysts think Putin is going to try and make peace before that and call it a win for the Great Liberator of Nazis that is Putin.

In Putin's mind, he thinks he is winning (and this is primarily due to the fact that he, like most dictators, surrounds himself with yes men that won't tell him the truth) but he is not. His forces are doing a slow job and they won't be done by May 9 (or even by the Russian calendar which is two weeks behind our calendar). Nor would he just stop on May 9. Instead, he is looking to expand this war outside of Ukraine.

I am fairly certain if he expands this to other countries, other countries will respond. It's one thing to invade one country of some bullshit pretense of saving it and taking the economic sanctions the world is giving him. It's a whole other to keep going to other countries. Especially since Russian military isnt being that careful 'to save the country'.

And I am very certain now considering how bad their military is performing, a coalition of countries would definitely push back the Russians. Nevermind the US getting involved.

[clearspira]

There is supposed to be a strong Pro-Russian movement in Eastern Ukraine, a mix of Russian descendants from the Soviet Era and even some Ukrainians who 'just want the good old Soviet days back.' If they had focused on annexing those areas, moving troops to occupy but then stop and only fight Ukrainian forces if they are actively trying to push the Russians out I think NATO would be more hesitant to get involved right now. Not that NATO would be ignoring the situation, just that they would have less of an excuse to get involved.

Was rather than is. I rather suspect that what Russian support there may have been there has largely vanished.

I agree Russia would probably have had less of a reaction from the West if that's all they'd concentrated on at first. But Putin blundered, firstly by trying to bite off far more than he could chew, and secondly by grossly under-estimating the response it would get. But he's too egocentric to back down (and in any case he'll probably be removed pretty quickly if he did right now). What can he actually achieve now though, other than to keep making things worse to stave off his downfall for a little longer? Possibly one push to try to grab as much as he can and call that a victory.

VE Day (Victory in Europe Day) in May is supposedly going to be one to watch. Many analysts think Putin is going to try and make peace before that and call it a win for the Great Liberator of Nazis that is Putin.

In Putin's mind, he thinks he is winning (and this is primarily due to the fact that he, like most dictators, surrounds himself with yes men that won't tell him the truth) but he is not. His forces are doing a slow job and they won't be done by May 9 (or even by the Russian calendar which is two weeks behind our calendar). Nor would he just stop on May 9. Instead, he is looking to expand this war outside of Ukraine.

I am fairly certain if he expands this to other countries, other countries will respond. It's one thing to invade one country of some bullshit pretense of saving it and taking the economic sanctions the world is giving him. It's a whole other to keep going to other countries. Especially since Russian military isnt being that careful 'to save the country'.

And I am very certain now considering how bad their military is performing, a coalition of countries would definitely push back the Russians. Nevermind the US getting involved.

Supposedly Putin cannot commit as many forces to Ukraine as he wishes because he has to keep a good chunk of it on the Chinese border out of fear that they may wish to take back all of the land that Russia stole.
That's their new allies lol. Just sitting there and waiting to sniff blood in the water.

[Thebestoftherest]

I do wonder how Mongolia is doing, between the two of them.