Japan needs babies.

[Yukaphile]

Keep in mind I'm an amateur when it comes to history, this is just my personal view. And you're speaking of the suffragette movement, not Feminism, which really exists as an ideology only since around the 1960s, as far as I know. And the patronizing attitudes back then were hell, and the way institutional power structures kept women down. There will be no debate on this. That's just how things were.

[Madner Kami]

Keep in mind I'm an amateur when it comes to history, this is just my personal view. And you're speaking of the suffragette movement, not Feminism, which really exists as an ideology only since around the 1960s, as far as I know. And the patronizing attitudes back then were hell, and the way institutional power structures kept women down. There will be no debate on this. That's just how things were.

And those "patronizing attitudes" and "institutional power structures" keeping women down just happened in the 1960s? They were never there before and never were a problem before? Somehow? No. You need to have a look at society and history to truely judge on what was happening there. The 1950s and early 60s were a rebound back to standards from before the 1930s, due to what was essentially the global collapse of an ultra-modern and genuinely increasingly equal society in the wake of the collapse of "The Old Order" in the First World War and the societally deconstructive efforts of World War 2.

[Yukaphile]

No, I know they've been around for far longer. But people seem to think they didn't exist in the 1960s - or to the extent they did in their own minds. And, what? Are you trying to claim that somehow women were being empowered in the 1930s and 1940s? I mean, in the US alone, they had the right to vote, but it was hardly the standard of equality people want to make it seem like. Especially with so many resentful men and even a few women among our population angrily discussing how "women should never have gotten the right to vote" and passing that on to their kids, boys who'd absorb it, and even girls who would grow to believe it, which is how patriarchy is maintained. The period following the 1920s was rife with those views. I mean, the primary job women were given were those of support roles to the men, not actually those occupations themselves. And as I said, there was stuff like bosses taking advantage of the situation to coerce their female workers into sex, discrimination in pay, and tons of other ways they were held down.

[Mecha82]

Especially with so many resentful men and even a few women among our population angrily discussing how "women should never have gotten the right to vote" and passing that on to their kids, boys who'd absorb it, and even girls who would grow to believe it, which is how patriarchy is maintained.

It does seem like those attitudes are still around today. I mean some people even in this thread seem to have been displaying those kind of attitudes alongside with idea that women were happier when they were "under thumb" and didn't have any rights.

[Antiboyscout]

Especially with so many resentful men and even a few women among our population angrily discussing how "women should never have gotten the right to vote" and passing that on to their kids, boys who'd absorb it, and even girls who would grow to believe it, which is how patriarchy is maintained.

It does seem like those attitudes are still around today. I mean some people even in this thread seem to have been displaying those kind of attitudes alongside with idea that women were happier when they were "under thumb" and didn't have any rights.

Then explain the happiness drop. It's been consistent since the 70's. I gave my interpretation where's yours?

[Yukaphile]

You're ignoring my point, ABS. Everyone is. Depression is on the rise among men too. And it's not just related to lack of romance. It's worry about our futures, the worsening political situation worldwide, economic woes, and a host of other mental problems. Depression doesn't need to be explained. You can't blame the fact men area now getting sad too on lack of dating. I think it's that people don't have enough money, they pay attention to bad news, they are putting more emphasis on their careers, and they feel helpless at all the evils of the world that bombards them. I mean, I'm a walking example of that - ignoring the lack of physical intimacy, of course.

[clearspira]

Why is happiness dropping? You can ask a million people and get a million answers. All I can do is give my opinion: lack of certainty. A hundred years ago a man was guaranteed a job, he had pride in his country, he believed in the media, and he knew God was real. Now a machine has his job, he knows that his government is self-serving, he knows the media lies, and even the most devout believer has to have at least heard the criticisms.

I think it was a lot easier to be happy once upon a time because people knew less. Yes his life is now safer and more convenient, but he also has access to every lie and every fake lie he has ever been told right there at his fingertips.

BTW I am not offering a solution here. I'm not saying we should return to the old ways or that what we are doing now is wrong or any shit like that. I'm merely saying what I think has happened.

[LittleRaven]

It does seem like those attitudes are still around today. I mean some people even in this thread seem to have been displaying those kind of attitudes alongside with idea that women were happier when they were "under thumb" and didn't have any rights.

Let's be clear - the happiness data that we are looking at only dates back to the '50s. Now don't get me wrong, there were a lot of social expectations and limitations for women in the 50s that modern women would scoff at, but legally they had most of the rights they have today.

[Riedquat]

Why is happiness dropping? You can ask a million people and get a million answers. All I can do is give my opinion: lack of certainty. A hundred years ago a man was guaranteed a job, he had pride in his country, he believed in the media, and he knew God was real. Now a machine has his job, he knows that his government is self-serving, he knows the media lies, and even the most devout believer has to have at least heard the criticisms.

I think it was a lot easier to be happy once upon a time because people knew less. Yes his life is now safer and more convenient, but he also has access to every lie and every fake lie he has ever been told right there at his fingertips.

BTW I am not offering a solution here. I'm not saying we should return to the old ways or that what we are doing now is wrong or any shit like that. I'm merely saying what I think has happened.

My personal views on it are for various causes. Some have been mentioned - certainty is one, and related to the job issue is being less useful (to your immediate society is part of it, but at all), and whilst businesses might not treat life as disposable as they once did they seem to treat people as more disposable and a nuisance than ever - very impersonal. Sure, I'll take that over working in a Victorian factory, but it is an aspect.

Then there's stress. Modern life is massively stressful mentally in a way it's never been before. People seem to expect to fill every second of their time, cheer on anything new that saves a few seconds as a great convenience - madness! Bit on the news today about some supposedly great new trains - full of wi-fi, display screens, power supplies, supposed to be faster - aargh! No mention of more comfortable seats.

Slightly related to the job one is an ever-increasing trend of being treated more and more like a useless child.

And I firmly believe our surroundings are getting more and more uninspiring and lifeless. I've a feeling that I'm not very good at expressing that the more distant the things that surround you are from the raw materials, the more processed they are - concrete instead of stone, plastic instead of wood etc. the more out of touch we are. I can't really put that one into words well enough to make much sense, and it might just be my own aesthetic tastes.

[Yukaphile]

@clearspira A man was guaranteed a job, but it was a shit job sometimes, working the mines, grueling labor work, that has decreased thanks to automation. It's only the substantial gap between a livable wage and the top dogs that is the problem. And pride in his country? Look how well that worked out for places like Germany, that became a blasted hellhole. People believing the media, though... I'll give you that. It's why I refuse to believe people prior to the 1960s who believed a propaganda-spewing MSM were collectively sharing in their leaders' guilt. And you're wrong about that. Atheists existed 100 years ago. I think what we've gained has more than made up what we've lost. And if it's about our love lives, then that's only a small part of it. Feminism may have created more uncertainty, sure, but if it means less inappropriate touching or upsetting people with unwanted advances, it's worth it. Hell, I think Riedquat nailed it. Things around me seem more lifeless and uninspiring. It's why we're so drawn to older media, and are the generation of nostalgia. I see it in these dead-looking modern movies. They look hollow as hell, and I'm not tempted at all.