Hamas Attacks Israel

[phantom000]

What could Israel have done? Well, I feel it's fairly simple. Abandon the illegal settlements and kicking the arses of the illegal settlers, rather than covertly supporting their illegal actions, in order to allow Palestinians to create their own state with their own territory. Also, Israel shouldn't have just left Gaza alone after occupying it. This wasn't a gesture of good will in the aftermath of the takeover, it was an abandonment and it's only logical, that the most radical elements would take over in the power-vacuum Israel's retreat created. Of course there's the slight issue of, whether the Palestinian population would've accepted an israeli-backed government, but maybe something would've been possible in conjunction with the UN, rather than just dropping Gaza like a hot potatoe.
Alternatively, if Israel can't or doesn't want to accept the two-state solution and insists on a Greater Israel, then they need to integrate the Palestinian population into that new state, which then necessarily ceases to be an explicit State for the Jews. The only other outcome is an ethnic cleansing, which I feel they are kinda undertaking since now over 20 years. Slowly and definitly not to a scale we know from elsewhere, but there's clear displacement of Palestinians from the Westbank going on and I refuse to call it anything else, but an ethnic cleansing, because that's what it is. Anyways, I kinda think most can agree, that ethnic cleansing is kind of a shitty practise and that a modern civil state, shouldn't engage in this practise...

People forget that ethnic cleansing was not a Nazi invention and tend to think of it as a blip in human history, something Hitler did 'that one time.' Every nation on Earth has been guilty of it, in one way, shape or form, and now Israel is doing their own version of it.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

YES!! What part of this do you not understand? Hamas uses the normal Palestinians as shields. They are in the hopsitals, the schools, the businesses, the shops.
''But how?'' I here you cry.
Because they are not only a terrorist cell but also the government. They have the reach to do this.

Stop thinking of these people as civilized. They are not. They care NOTHING for life.

Yes and bombing them anyway is not really a great solution or less of a war crime.

It's no different than someone taking a hostage and then shooting the hostage to get at the person behind them.

Really I thought Israel was supposed to have insurgency contingents comparable to Navy Seals about. What is their infantry infrastructure geared towards?

[MightyDavidson]

YES!! What part of this do you not understand? Hamas uses the normal Palestinians as shields. They are in the hopsitals, the schools, the businesses, the shops.
''But how?'' I here you cry.
Because they are not only a terrorist cell but also the government. They have the reach to do this.

Stop thinking of these people as civilized. They are not. They care NOTHING for life.

Yes and bombing them anyway is not really a great solution or less of a war crime.

It's no different than someone taking a hostage and then shooting the hostage to get at the person behind them.

Really I thought Israel was supposed to have insurgency contingents comparable to Navy Seals about. What is their infantry infrastructure geared towards?

You'd think their intelligence people would be good at ferreting out terrorist cells by now, at the very least.

[clearspira]

What could Israel have done? Well, I feel it's fairly simple. Abandon the illegal settlements and kicking the arses of the illegal settlers, rather than covertly supporting their illegal actions, in order to allow Palestinians to create their own state with their own territory. Also, Israel shouldn't have just left Gaza alone after occupying it. This wasn't a gesture of good will in the aftermath of the takeover, it was an abandonment and it's only logical, that the most radical elements would take over in the power-vacuum Israel's retreat created. Of course there's the slight issue of, whether the Palestinian population would've accepted an israeli-backed government, but maybe something would've been possible in conjunction with the UN, rather than just dropping Gaza like a hot potatoe.
Alternatively, if Israel can't or doesn't want to accept the two-state solution and insists on a Greater Israel, then they need to integrate the Palestinian population into that new state, which then necessarily ceases to be an explicit State for the Jews. The only other outcome is an ethnic cleansing, which I feel they are kinda undertaking since now over 20 years. Slowly and definitly not to a scale we know from elsewhere, but there's clear displacement of Palestinians from the Westbank going on and I refuse to call it anything else, but an ethnic cleansing, because that's what it is. Anyways, I kinda think most can agree, that ethnic cleansing is kind of a shitty practise and that a modern civil state, shouldn't engage in this practise...

I think this picture puts things into perspective somewhat. If not Israel - where? Where do the Jews get to have their one single country?



As I said in the opening comment, I do not know enough about the overall history of the region to really comment. My vendetta here is only against Hamas itself and terrorism in general. But I do not get this irrational hatred and continuous persecution of them throughout the centuries. Even during the Black Death they were blamed for it. I guess I am just finding it a bit hard to question their militancy given how many people have tried to wipe them off the face of the Earth. Every time the Jews are weak, they get punished harshly for it. But... I think someone on this very thread pointed out the eerie similarities between Israel and the Narn from Babylon 5, about how they got powerful enough to become the bullies? That story didn't end well for the Narn.

Will the US start WW3 over Israel? I have my doubts. They talk big, but the difference is, they don't want to see the missiles fly. I doubt Hamas would really care all much.

[CharlesPhipps]

What could Israel have done? Well, I feel it's fairly simple. Abandon the illegal settlements and kicking the arses of the illegal settlers, rather than covertly supporting their illegal actions, in order to allow Palestinians to create their own state with their own territory. Also, Israel shouldn't have just left Gaza alone after occupying it. This wasn't a gesture of good will in the aftermath of the takeover, it was an abandonment and it's only logical, that the most radical elements would take over in the power-vacuum Israel's retreat created. Of course there's the slight issue of, whether the Palestinian population would've accepted an israeli-backed government, but maybe something would've been possible in conjunction with the UN, rather than just dropping Gaza like a hot potatoe.
Alternatively, if Israel can't or doesn't want to accept the two-state solution and insists on a Greater Israel, then they need to integrate the Palestinian population into that new state, which then necessarily ceases to be an explicit State for the Jews. The only other outcome is an ethnic cleansing, which I feel they are kinda undertaking since now over 20 years. Slowly and definitly not to a scale we know from elsewhere, but there's clear displacement of Palestinians from the Westbank going on and I refuse to call it anything else, but an ethnic cleansing, because that's what it is. Anyways, I kinda think most can agree, that ethnic cleansing is kind of a shitty practise and that a modern civil state, shouldn't engage in this practise...

I think this picture puts things into perspective somewhat. If not Israel - where? Where do the Jews get to have their one single country?



As I said in the opening comment, I do not know enough about the overall history of the region to really comment. My vendetta here is only against Hamas itself and terrorism in general. But I do not get this irrational hatred and continuous persecution of them throughout the centuries. Even during the Black Death they were blamed for it. I guess I am just finding it a bit hard to question their militancy given how many people have tried to wipe them off the face of the Earth. Every time the Jews are weak, they get punished harshly for it. But... I think someone on this very thread pointed out the eerie similarities between Israel and the Narn from Babylon 5, about how they got powerful enough to become the bullies? That story didn't end well for the Narn.

Will the US start WW3 over Israel? I have my doubts. They talk big, but the difference is, they don't want to see the missiles fly. I doubt Hamas would really care all much.

Rather than even bothering deconstructing this, I'll just say the map maker was a fucking moron because their argument is that this is uniquely an Arab versus Israeli conflict. What sort of fucking map says the Arab world wants to destroy Israel, listing a bunch of countries that have never been against Israel but leaves off Iran (a non-Arab country) that absolutely DOES want to destroy Israel.

And the issue with Israel and Palestine is, "Would you please stop building illegal settlements past the enormous fucking wall YOU built to create a demarcation line."

Not that Hamas gives a shit about actually improving lives or justified greviances. They're paid for terrorists by other nations.

[phantom000]

I think this picture puts things into perspective somewhat. If not Israel - where? Where do the Jews get to have their one single country?

I think you're asking the wrong question. The real issue here is not where but why; why do the Jews need to have their one single country? What makes them so special they get to push everyone else out of the way?

[CharlesPhipps]

I think this picture puts things into perspective somewhat. If not Israel - where? Where do the Jews get to have their one single country?

I think you're asking the wrong question. The real issue here is not where but why; why do the Jews need to have their one single country? What makes them so special they get to push everyone else out of the way?

A point of clarification: The disputed territory is Gaza.

People have been born, lived, and died in Israel since it's existence as a country. If there was ever a question about whether or not it is a nation, it no longer exists because it is the home of the people who live there.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

So, you're argument is that this is Hamas's fault, regardless of what Israel does, Clearspira? When Hamas kills babies, it's an atrocity. When Israel kills babies, it's "war is a a big boy game and Hamas is bad anyway".

[phantom000]

I think this picture puts things into perspective somewhat. If not Israel - where? Where do the Jews get to have their one single country?

I think you're asking the wrong question. The real issue here is not where but why; why do the Jews need to have their one single country? What makes them so special they get to push everyone else out of the way?

A point of clarification: The disputed territory is Gaza.

People have been born, lived, and died in Israel since it's existence as a country. If there was ever a question about whether or not it is a nation, it no longer exists because it is the home of the people who live there.

So why can't the Palestinians live there as well?

[MightyDavidson]

I think this picture puts things into perspective somewhat. If not Israel - where? Where do the Jews get to have their one single country?

I think you're asking the wrong question. The real issue here is not where but why; why do the Jews need to have their one single country? What makes them so special they get to push everyone else out of the way?

A point of clarification: The disputed territory is Gaza.

People have been born, lived, and died in Israel since it's existence as a country. If there was ever a question about whether or not it is a nation, it no longer exists because it is the home of the people who live there.

So why can't the Palestinians live there as well?

I think Charles' statement was meant to include both Palestinians and Jews. They're both people who live there after all.