Another School Shooting, this time in Florida

[Mercury01]

So many stories of heroism that must be ignored for this argument. The story of the gym teacher is especially tragic as he had a CCW but was not allowed to carry in the gun free zone.

He died shielding a student's body with his own, not while attacking the shooter or something. I sincerely doubt that even if he did have a gun, he wouldn't turn it on a student.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

They prefer false sense of security and luxury comforts vs actual security. As long as they feel safe, it's fine. How they get there, it doesn't matter and they call it progress

No, we don't.

I have made this clear to you, and I really need you to believe it if we can engage in any meaningful dialogue.

Me, and the many other people who argue for stronger gun regulations, for less guns instead of more guns, are not doing it just so we can "feel safe". We are doing it because the evidence we have seen, and the personal testimonies of survivors, give us reason to believe that it is safer, and that more guns and easier access too them will decrease rather than increase the safety of innocent people.

If you're willing to believe that we're not virtue-signalling liars who care more about political points than practical reality, then I can proceed on the assumption that you and people sharing your view are doing so because of a genuine concern for the safety of others rather than a need for an action-movie fantasy to validate their ego.

If you insist that we somehow deep down know that guns make people safer, and are ignoring it for the sake of ideological purity, then we have nothing to say to each other.

[Antiboyscout]

https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/compa ... nd-europe/

[ORCACommander]

But here lies a fundamental problem, no matter what we do, not matter what legislation you think we can accomplish, whether pro guns wins or looses, We Are Never Safe.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

But here lies a fundamental problem, no matter what we do, not matter what legislation you think we can accomplish, whether pro guns wins or looses, We Are Never Safe.

So?! What's your point?

Yes, perfection is not achievable by humankind and this is not a perfect world, but? You don't wanna live in a society with safety belts, speed limits, condoms, hand sanitizer, and carbon monoxide monitors?

This is what I mean when I talk about guns being treated differently from everything else in this country.

[Mercury01]

But here lies a fundamental problem, no matter what we do, not matter what legislation you think we can accomplish, whether pro guns wins or looses, We Are Never Safe.

And? A lot of people die in car accidents every year. But those numbers have gone way down since legislation required cars to have safety features like anti-lock brakes and airbags, made wearing seatbelts mandatory, and enforced speed limits. Injuries and fatalities on the job have gone way down as more and more occupational health and safety standards have been introduced.

No, we're not going to be 100% safe. But our goal should be to reduce the danger as much as possible.

[Admiral X]

For me it represents an important part of my ability to defend myself, which I see as a fundamental right. Plus, while Yamamoto may not have actually said it, the idea of "a rifle behind every blade of grass" really appeals to me.

[ORCACommander]

I really Wish this forum had multi-qoute sometimes.

So here is the thing. I take personal responsibility for making myself and my environment safer. I also take personal responsibility for when I decide to stupid shit like Unharness myself from an electric ladder and half climb into steel racking 25 feet above a cement floor. And while safety mechanisms an and standards are useful, I am not going to force them on some one. Further lets not conflate accidents and standards of workmanship with malicious intent.

Let's Do a little though experiment shall we?

Let's up the ante, let's say I had in my possession not an Armalite Rifle Model 15 but a SCAR.
I have used and been trained on safe handling, marksmanship and maintenance of small arms since I was 10 years old.
Current state and local government does not issue licenses. Federal licenses only apply to dealers and certain classes of collectors
I keep it locked in when not in use.
It is unloaded in said safe, but there is charged Magazine next to it
I keep a record of its model and serial number in a separate document safe. However Since registration is not mandatory with my local and state government the firearm is not registered but I still have the information on record for a police report should I loose possession of the firearm.
During recreation or practice with it, it is not to be left unattended or used by others without my expressed permission and or supervision including a range master.
As for Use against a living creature and not an inanimate range target? I have the moral authority to end a life under the following conditions: The target is a clear and present threat to men, mine and others. Putting that target down will not be a greater risk. Killing or disabling said target needs to be clean, no wounding just for the sake of being able to say I tried to get a shot off. All of this would relly on my judgement. As for game animals or pests, the proper game licenses would be Acquired and the firearm would be used in a manner to minimize injury to other people and property.

In the above, In any way Have I been malicious, conducting illegal activity, posing an active threat to others or being irresponsible?

[excalibur]

The greatest example is the 1994 Assault Weapons ban. For 10 years, it didn't stop anything and Columbine happened during that time period. Look up. This ban did a lot to limit guns from magazine limits to can't have certain guns. Crime did not go down at all. When it sunset, crime did not spike either.

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

OrcaCommander, your decision to unharness yourself or not wear a seatbelt doesn't affect the level at which other people are at risk. If this is a question of personal liberty and responsibility, I'll say the rights of school children sharing tips on how to play dead by smearing the still-warm blood of a classmate on your face trumps your privileges as a responsible gun owner.