The Russian Invasion of Ukraine

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Thebestoftherest
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Re: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Thebestoftherest »

Madner Kami wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:48 pm
clearspira wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:47 pm Breaking news: Putin's brand new Ferris wheel has already broken down.
How very russian.
No need to make fun of them, they were russian it.
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tyrteg
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Re: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine

Post by tyrteg »


youtu.be/xajvqvaxbcs

A very good video on why Russian mentality is what it is and why many Russians can't even imagine politics/economy/life being anything different than what they know...

Also...
McAvoy wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 6:46 am I think the biggest test for the resolve to back Ukraine is winter. Now I am not really informed about how much or where Europe gets its oil, but from what I understand before all of this a large part of it came from Russia.
I know that by being American you are basically required by law to have strong opinions about everything everywhere (especially things you're completely uninformed about) and normally being European I'm used to it. But could you not? Just for once?

As for oil imports - about 30% of EU oil imports in 2020 came from Russia. About twice as much gas. Not insignificant numbers but not a situation where Russia shutting down their pipelines would make Europe freeze to death. Not outside Putin's dreams.
Especially since (as my favorite youtuber Perun put it) EU is incredibly wealthy compared to neighboring regions so they'll be able to buy it (paying at a premium) even if it means other countries will be starved of oil/gas because of it. It's the same as grain shipments. Europe isn't in danger. Developing countries are.

As for why we're not building Nuclear Power Plants - it's politics. Right now I'd say Europe is less divided on most topics than USA - but Nuclear Energy is about as divisive topic in EU as gun control is in USA. Green parties everywhere are always opposed. Educated scientists all over EU are almost universally for. The public is divided and different countries have different policies. My country has enough nuclear power-plants to sell excess energy to our neighbors and we are debating building more. Germans on the other hand seem to prefer freezing to death to keep theirs running.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/inf ... oc-2c.html

As to popular media fears of native Ukrainians (being well-supported by their country, their people and their European neighbors and having excelent supply lines after recent victories) dying of cold in their home country of Ukraine? Not bloody likely. The Russians who already have issues supporting their army with uniforms and weapons? Well... it's going to be a very unfun winter for Ruski boyars...
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McAvoy
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Re: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine

Post by McAvoy »

tyrteg wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:39 pm
youtu.be/xajvqvaxbcs

A very good video on why Russian mentality is what it is and why many Russians can't even imagine politics/economy/life being anything different than what they know...

Also...
McAvoy wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 6:46 am I think the biggest test for the resolve to back Ukraine is winter. Now I am not really informed about how much or where Europe gets its oil, but from what I understand before all of this a large part of it came from Russia.
I know that by being American you are basically required by law to have strong opinions about everything everywhere (especially things you're completely uninformed about) and normally being European I'm used to it. But could you not? Just for once?

As for oil imports - about 30% of EU oil imports in 2020 came from Russia. About twice as much gas. Not insignificant numbers but not a situation where Russia shutting down their pipelines would make Europe freeze to death. Not outside Putin's dreams.
Especially since (as my favorite youtuber Perun put it) EU is incredibly wealthy compared to neighboring regions so they'll be able to buy it (paying at a premium) even if it means other countries will be starved of oil/gas because of it. It's the same as grain shipments. Europe isn't in danger. Developing countries are.

As for why we're not building Nuclear Power Plants - it's politics. Right now I'd say Europe is less divided on most topics than USA - but Nuclear Energy is about as divisive topic in EU as gun control is in USA. Green parties everywhere are always opposed. Educated scientists all over EU are almost universally for. The public is divided and different countries have different policies. My country has enough nuclear power-plants to sell excess energy to our neighbors and we are debating building more. Germans on the other hand seem to prefer freezing to death to keep theirs running.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/inf ... oc-2c.html

As to popular media fears of native Ukrainians (being well-supported by their country, their people and their European neighbors and having excelent supply lines after recent victories) dying of cold in their home country of Ukraine? Not bloody likely. The Russians who already have issues supporting their army with uniforms and weapons? Well... it's going to be a very unfun winter for Ruski boyars...
Here tell you what. From now on I don't want to hear a peep just for once, about Europeans sticking their noses in American politics. I don't want to hear their opinions Bout anything involving what the US does. I don't want to read about criticisms about the US. Can you do that just once? Especially when you don't know what you are talking about?

Can you do that?

Can you Europeans do that?

Doubtful. So I will say whatever the fuck I want. How about that?
I got nothing to say here.
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phantom000
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Re: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine

Post by phantom000 »

McAvoy wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:52 am
tyrteg wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:39 pm
youtu.be/xajvqvaxbcs

A very good video on why Russian mentality is what it is and why many Russians can't even imagine politics/economy/life being anything different than what they know...

Also...
McAvoy wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 6:46 am I think the biggest test for the resolve to back Ukraine is winter. Now I am not really informed about how much or where Europe gets its oil, but from what I understand before all of this a large part of it came from Russia.
I know that by being American you are basically required by law to have strong opinions about everything everywhere (especially things you're completely uninformed about) and normally being European I'm used to it. But could you not? Just for once?

As for oil imports - about 30% of EU oil imports in 2020 came from Russia. About twice as much gas. Not insignificant numbers but not a situation where Russia shutting down their pipelines would make Europe freeze to death. Not outside Putin's dreams.
Especially since (as my favorite youtuber Perun put it) EU is incredibly wealthy compared to neighboring regions so they'll be able to buy it (paying at a premium) even if it means other countries will be starved of oil/gas because of it. It's the same as grain shipments. Europe isn't in danger. Developing countries are.

As for why we're not building Nuclear Power Plants - it's politics. Right now I'd say Europe is less divided on most topics than USA - but Nuclear Energy is about as divisive topic in EU as gun control is in USA. Green parties everywhere are always opposed. Educated scientists all over EU are almost universally for. The public is divided and different countries have different policies. My country has enough nuclear power-plants to sell excess energy to our neighbors and we are debating building more. Germans on the other hand seem to prefer freezing to death to keep theirs running.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/inf ... oc-2c.html

As to popular media fears of native Ukrainians (being well-supported by their country, their people and their European neighbors and having excelent supply lines after recent victories) dying of cold in their home country of Ukraine? Not bloody likely. The Russians who already have issues supporting their army with uniforms and weapons? Well... it's going to be a very unfun winter for Ruski boyars...
Here tell you what. From now on I don't want to hear a peep just for once, about Europeans sticking their noses in American politics. I don't want to hear their opinions Bout anything involving what the US does. I don't want to read about criticisms about the US. Can you do that just once? Especially when you don't know what you are talking about?

Can you do that?

Can you Europeans do that?

Doubtful. So I will say whatever the fuck I want. How about that?
What is sad is that they are usually right about the USA half the time...
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Madner Kami
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Re: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Madner Kami »

phantom000 wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:39 pmWhat is sad is that they are usually right about the USA half the time...
The luxury of the outsider's eyes. It's easy to spot the crack in the fascade, if you don't spend your life in that house.

Anyways, back to the topic: Ukraine is getting some very interesting tanks, which might be a sign of things to come.

Slovenia Is Giving Ukraine Some Very Old Tanks. But Age Can Be Deceiving.

They're T-55s in so far, as a completely gutted 1940's vehicles with a modern engine and it's original empty weight in electronics added is still a 1940's vehicle. Their performance profile allows them to operate on an equal level to T-72s (in some regards even better), which play a major role in this war. In conjunction with some allusions made by government-spokespeople in the recent days, this might be the moment where western tanks enter Ukrainian service through the backdoor, as just a few days ago a curious statement was made:

Image

About Jack Detsch. So far he was a very reliable source.
Those T-55s were gutted by an isreali company for everything except hull and turret. They got a derivative of the famed british L7 105mm gun, a newly developed projectile gets it about on par with contemporary 120mm gun performances. (The L7 is the same gun as used on the german Leopard 1 and early M1 Abrams-variants and, of course, the gun that made the Centurion into the thing it is in terms of tank-history.). It's got a new engine with 600 instead of 500 horsepowers (on a 36 ton tank) and an entirely new drive-train, as well as literally tons of western computers, equipment, radios and an armor upgrade in the form of ERA-plates.
"If you get shot up by an A6M Reisen and your plane splits into pieces - does that mean it's divided by Zero?
- xoxSAUERKRAUTxox
Thebestoftherest
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Re: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Thebestoftherest »

tyrteg wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:39 pm
youtu.be/xajvqvaxbcs

A very good video on why Russian mentality is what it is and why many Russians can't even imagine politics/economy/life being anything different than what they know...

Also...
McAvoy wrote: Sun Sep 11, 2022 6:46 am I think the biggest test for the resolve to back Ukraine is winter. Now I am not really informed about how much or where Europe gets its oil, but from what I understand before all of this a large part of it came from Russia.
I know that by being American you are basically required by law to have strong opinions about everything everywhere (especially things you're completely uninformed about) and normally being European I'm used to it. But could you not? Just for once?

As for oil imports - about 30% of EU oil imports in 2020 came from Russia. About twice as much gas. Not insignificant numbers but not a situation where Russia shutting down their pipelines would make Europe freeze to death. Not outside Putin's dreams.
Especially since (as my favorite youtuber Perun put it) EU is incredibly wealthy compared to neighboring regions so they'll be able to buy it (paying at a premium) even if it means other countries will be starved of oil/gas because of it. It's the same as grain shipments. Europe isn't in danger. Developing countries are.

As for why we're not building Nuclear Power Plants - it's politics. Right now I'd say Europe is less divided on most topics than USA - but Nuclear Energy is about as divisive topic in EU as gun control is in USA. Green parties everywhere are always opposed. Educated scientists all over EU are almost universally for. The public is divided and different countries have different policies. My country has enough nuclear power-plants to sell excess energy to our neighbors and we are debating building more. Germans on the other hand seem to prefer freezing to death to keep theirs running.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/inf ... oc-2c.html

As to popular media fears of native Ukrainians (being well-supported by their country, their people and their European neighbors and having excelent supply lines after recent victories) dying of cold in their home country of Ukraine? Not bloody likely. The Russians who already have issues supporting their army with uniforms and weapons? Well... it's going to be a very unfun winter for Ruski boyars...
So it likr what happened with Germany when they went to Russian in WW2 but on Bizzaro world.
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clearspira
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Re: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine

Post by clearspira »

Putin has just come as closest as he has ever come to admitting that the Ukraine war is actually ''a war'' by announcing he is going to send in the reserves. He is also going to ''offer'' referendums to the occupied territories.
Thing is, more men on the ground is not going to make all that much of a difference because Ukraine seems to have won the air war, American weapons are 50 years ahead of anything Russia has, and Ukraine has apparently liberated so much Russian gear that they are now one of the best equipped armies on the planet. Putin is hoping to do ''a WW2'' on a country that is readying itself for WW3.
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clearspira
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Re: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine

Post by clearspira »

Madner Kami wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:28 pm
phantom000 wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:39 pmWhat is sad is that they are usually right about the USA half the time...
The luxury of the outsider's eyes. It's easy to spot the crack in the fascade, if you don't spend your life in that house.
That's why the most important thing you can do in life is to travel. Every country engages in delivering propaganda to its masses about how great it is, stepping out of that country and seeing other ways of doing things often highlights just how much crap back home you have normalised and forgiven - but also just how much you have to be thankful for because there are probably things that your country does better than them too.

Not everyone criticising your country is a ''hater'' is basically what you need to get into your head at a young age.
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phantom000
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Re: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine

Post by phantom000 »

clearspira wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:34 am
Madner Kami wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:28 pm
phantom000 wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:39 pmWhat is sad is that they are usually right about the USA half the time...
The luxury of the outsider's eyes. It's easy to spot the crack in the fascade, if you don't spend your life in that house.
That's why the most important thing you can do in life is to travel. Every country engages in delivering propaganda to its masses about how great it is, stepping out of that country and seeing other ways of doing things often highlights just how much crap back home you have normalised and forgiven - but also just how much you have to be thankful for because there are probably things that your country does better than them too.
Well here in the USA when it comes to visiting other countries we have two big problems, namely the Atlantic and the Pacific. Crossing the ocean is not cheap so our travel options are kinda limited. I remember watching some British sitcoms on PBS and someone mentioned going to Egypt for their holiday, despite working a regular 9-5 job. It seemed weird they could take a vacation in another country on such a small salary then I realized that London to Cairo is not much further than NYC to LA. Lisbon to Warsaw, effectively driving a cross mainland Europe would be a shorter trip than Seattle to Miami.

True, we have Canada and Mexico but for most Americans the options are a bit more limited than for Europeans. I wonder if that is why the US traditionally has been more insular than Europe.
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Re: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine

Post by Jonathan101 »

clearspira wrote: Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:34 am
Madner Kami wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:28 pm
phantom000 wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:39 pmWhat is sad is that they are usually right about the USA half the time...
The luxury of the outsider's eyes. It's easy to spot the crack in the fascade, if you don't spend your life in that house.
That's why the most important thing you can do in life is to travel. Every country engages in delivering propaganda to its masses about how great it is, stepping out of that country and seeing other ways of doing things often highlights just how much crap back home you have normalised and forgiven - but also just how much you have to be thankful for because there are probably things that your country does better than them too.

Not everyone criticising your country is a ''hater'' is basically what you need to get into your head at a young age.
The Christchurch shooter was very well travelled so I don't think that's "the most important thing".

Most people can't afford to travel widely and even if they could, they aren't necessarily going to be more open-minded because of it, especially if they are only travelling for fun.

The better thing is just to be more aware and understanding of other cultures in general, which you can get in a variety of ways; plus, of course, watching one's mental health and engaging in self-development.
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