Fuzzy Necromancer wrote:
1. Admiral X, the reason I do not open myself to the same treatment is that I am not advocating genocide. I realize this may seem like a technicality, but please bear with me.
It really doesn't matter. I'm essentially making two points.
Communism is the end goal of socialism. Guess which political ideology has killed and oppressed millions more than even the Nazis?
![Image](http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q203/captainexcabier/smilies/emot-colbert.gif)
So by saying you are communist or socialist, it could be argued that at the very least you are saying you're cool with that history, not to mention the oppressive nature of such a government, even if you aren't outright endorsing it. So by the same logic you are using to defend the idea of punching someone, because Nazi (and ignoring how loose the term as been applied when it comes to political differences), you are opening yourself to someone doing the same to you on the same basis.
On a more pragmatic standpoint, you are advocating violence against people because they say things you don't agree with. There is no defending that. If you feel people are a threat, you report that to the authorities and let them take care of it. That is not up to you to be a vigilante and part of some mob (which when you think about it isn't to dissimilar to how lynch mobs were formed). Hell, I'm real big on the Second Amendment, but I would never advocate violence as a first resort, and I would never support violence in anything other than defense of life and limb. The actions of these "antifa" types makes them no different from the brownshirts and the stuff they did. What you advocate for is very much a repeat of Italy's Years of Lead, and that is unacceptable.
There are, generally agreed, limits to free speech, and to what the right of free speech protects you from. Banning a person from a forum for a forum rules is not a violation of free speech. Refuse to publish something somebody in your newspaper because you find it offensive is not a violation of free speech. Being criticized for the things you say is not a violation of free speech. With me so far?
Not really, as I'm very anti-censorship. I see bad ideas as something that should have the light shown on it as much as possible, so they can be refuted and derided as necessary.
Let's move a little further. This isn't just things you say face to face. Recently, a girl made a post on social media about how she wanted to "reenact Columbine", and was very distressed and shocked when a swat team was called on her and she suffered legal consequences for that. Any threat to the POTUS, saying you want/intend to kill him, is technically a federal offense. Sending death threats on anon to a blogger you really hate is, again, something you can be morally and legally punished for, even if it's just "Im gunna kill you punk ass bitch".
And you've stumbled upon the distinction. There's also the whole causing a riot thing.
What I am proposing is that the Nazi ideology, the fourteen words, agendas like "Are Jews human?" and proposals of ethnic cleansing fall under the same category as the bomb threat to a school, the post on face book, and "your money or your life."
Except they aren't. They can talk as much shit as they want, but as long as they don't walk the walk, that still falls under free speech because as reprehensible as it is, they are spouting political ideology. And even if it was, we still come down to - if you think it's illegal, get the authorities and have them deal with it. What's-his-face being a smug asshole in front of a camera isn't any kind of immediate threat to anyone. And given that that's all he does, I'd say he isn't really a threat at all, and the shit he says does fall under free speech.
2. I don't know whether or not you will agree with this line of reasoning. I can, however, state that even if you don't, punching Nazis does not make us "as bad as them." Physically hurting somebody because of their agenda is a far, far cry from killing people en mass because of their race, orientation, or ability.
Actually in a way it makes you worse, because while you're being the violent thugs, they are keeping fairly civil and aren't escalating things beyond words. There's also the risk that you'll give them the very thing they want and as I've mentioned previously, we'll end up with a Years of Lead situation.
3. Even if you don't accept the basic morality of violence, punching a Nazi has it's place on the sliding scale of idealism vs. pragmatism. It accomplishes something by denying them a platform and letting them know that their ideology will not be tolerated.
So you are advocating censorship through violence.
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
Definitely not making your argument look any better.
Denying a platform slows down their recruitment rates.
Much like other moral busy-bodies, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that simply being exposed to something will magically turn people into whatever boogeyman you're trying to scare people with. And again, if anything, the violence and censorship will actually cause the recruitment, rather like the Iraq war helped get recruits for Al Qaeda and helped to inspire ISIS.
Letting them know they won't be tolerated compels the active Nazis to crawl back to their subreddits and private forums instead of acting in more openly hateful ways. They are less bold. Also, in terms of the internal mythology of the Nazis, there is a big emphasis on masculinity and Strong Man figures, so punching Richard Spencer in the face lowers his standing and their faith in him by showing how easily he can be cold-clocked.
Or you'll simply show them it's possible to be violent in the open with little consequence. And if you're very lucky, it won't end up being a repeat of the
Greensboro massacre. But really, it's not up to you to get all brownshirt on the Nazis to try to scare them into keeping their heads down. That simply makes you criminals, and the cops will come after you while the Nazis cry victim. Do you really want to end up in the slam for something like that (keeping in mind that there are Nazi gangs there)?