Sfdebris.net

As much fun as we all have with, Roseanne Barr tweeting the Hitler salute or the latest Russian factoid that literally nobody, not even Congress, can or should do anything about until Our Boy Bob is done with his investigation, there is this trend that's starting to kick into gear that will, likely, probably affect more of us directly.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way ... n-overhaul

And yes I do mean trend, in case this one earlier in the month. https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/05/us/west- ... index.html And these mentions of growing problems in AZ and OK https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/03 ... he-numbers

So, fam, is it chickens coming home to roost? A deep state conspiracy? A social contract based on cheap manufactured goods that doesn't translate well to the public sector after forty years? A repeat of history and high income inequality leading to more proactive labor unions? ISIS trying to make your children dumber in revenge? Greedy assholes putting their jobs before students? But enough about the legislatures!

I say this as someone so poor I'm in and out of shelters even when employed, but from my understanding of this thing called "the middle class" it doesn't seem unreasonable to me looking at that adjusted wage chart. Too often in these discussions I see people yelling for educators to be more considerate of the children they are harming, but...

This isn't performance art. They aren't writing erotic fanfiction or making youtube videos, and lots of people seem to believe it's the same umbrella. Educating is a skill, it's a science, and a highly trained one at that, especially with the rise of special needs education and understanding...you know...how humans learn. Teachers are required to, eventually, attain a Masters. One of the arguments against minimum wage increases is "just get a better job", well, here they lay, and for the man hours one needs to put in to be a decent teacher, the reward does not seem to be there. Education is a tradeskill, like any other, and while it's not something a trust fund baby goes into to get rich, lots of other careers are like that, too, like your electrician, plumber, or dentist. And we should be okay with them reaming us -just as much- as those people.

Let me throw come complication onto the fire.

I think (based on limited info, so grain of salt and all that) that public education teachers' jobs are generally fairly low-paying, but with good pensions... and with job security that's built out of an alloy of neutronium, adamantium, and whatever holds 7 of 9's hair in place.

And sometimes teachers are doing something else during the summer, but that something else probably isn't going to pay much because they can only do it over the summer. Higher paying work usually takes twelve months of the year. Let me ask my boss how OK he is if I only come in to work on software two months of the year, and how much I'll advance year to year doing that.

If pensions are a big part of the draw then a surprise overhaul of pensions is fightin' words. It's like buying an expensive car with excellent gas mileage and then finding out they tied an old refrigerator onto the back after you signed the papers.

Going by this map https://articles.niche.com/teacher-salaries-in-america/ there are a wide range of salaries.
In California teachers make an average around $70,000. In South Dakota it's shy of $40,000. Of course, living in California is probably a lot more expensive than living in South Dakota. According to Wikipedia, "California had a per capita income of $29,906 during the five-year period comprising years 2010 through 2014. " And, "South Dakota is the twenty-eighth richest state in the United States of America, with a per capita income of $26,959 (2010)." So those are not bottom-of-the-rung salaries, but I'm willing to bet there's little with a Master's degree that doesn't pay better.

NOTE: Looking up the income for either state usually got me the household income, which, with two-earner households being so frequent, tends to be a lot higher. The figures I quote above are per capita, not per household.

We can pay teachers more. Asking to make it easier to fire the poorer-performing ones seems like something fair to ask in return. Firing a poor teacher shouldn't be a career in and of itself.

The pensions I think we'd have to leave on the high side. The two months off might continue to be a problem; pay them for two months at the beach, or leave them to fend for themselves? Neither option seems that attractive. Pay them to go through the stores and correct the "10 Items or Less" signs to say "10 Items or Fewer?" And we can't put them in the coal mines for two months. Global warming and all that. Maybe more year-round school districts?

Maybe some people with teaching experience can fact-check me and expound on what they do over the summer. I think Chuck used to be a teacher, but he's probably also too smart to venture in for fear of me and Fuzzy hitting each other over the head... with Chuck.

I'm behind this 100%. It's not just that the pay is shit. Public school teachers are being asked to work without the tools needed to do their jobs. Do you know how many stories I've heard of teachers who buy school supplies for kids that can't afford them out of their own salary because, well, you can't teach a kid who doesn't have books or pencils? Or provide food because students who are food insecure are too hungry to pay attention?

Teachers going on strike is, well, reasonable. Unions and strikes actually get the job done, as long as you don't have state-sponsored goons wading in to crack some skulls. In an era when plenty of teachers are spending their off days working at Walmart to make ends meet, in a field that requires degrees and specialized skills and knowledge, it seems the least we can do is give them a proper wage.

As a general rule I support all labor strikes. Bless the rank and file members in West Virginia that refused to accept the watered down "solution" their leaders wanted to take. Here's to all teachers everywhere going on strike.

Darth Wedgius wrote:Let me throw come complication onto the fire.

I think (based on limited info, so grain of salt and all that) that public education teachers' jobs are generally fairly low-paying, but with good pensions... and with job security that's built out of an alloy of neutronium, adamantium, and whatever holds 7 of 9's hair in place.

And sometimes teachers are doing something else during the summer, but that something else probably isn't going to pay much because they can only do it over the summer. Higher paying work usually takes twelve months of the year. Let me ask my boss how OK he is if I only come in to work on software two months of the year, and how much I'll advance year to year doing that.

If pensions are a big part of the draw then a surprise overhaul of pensions is fightin' words. It's like buying an expensive car with excellent gas mileage and then finding out they tied an old refrigerator onto the back after you signed the papers.

Going by this map https://articles.niche.com/teacher-salaries-in-america/ there are a wide range of salaries.
In California teachers make an average around $70,000. In South Dakota it's shy of $40,000. Of course, living in California is probably a lot more expensive than living in South Dakota. According to Wikipedia, "California had a per capita income of $29,906 during the five-year period comprising years 2010 through 2014. " And, "South Dakota is the twenty-eighth richest state in the United States of America, with a per capita income of $26,959 (2010)." So those are not bottom-of-the-rung salaries, but I'm willing to bet there's little with a Master's degree that doesn't pay better.

NOTE: Looking up the income for either state usually got me the household income, which, with two-earner households being so frequent, tends to be a lot higher. The figures I quote above are per capita, not per household.

We can pay teachers more. Asking to make it easier to fire the poorer-performing ones seems like something fair to ask in return. Firing a poor teacher shouldn't be a career in and of itself.

The pensions I think we'd have to leave on the high side. The two months off might continue to be a problem; pay them for two months at the beach, or leave them to fend for themselves? Neither option seems that attractive. Pay them to go through the stores and correct the "10 Items or Less" signs to say "10 Items or Fewer?" And we can't put them in the coal mines for two months. Global warming and all that. Maybe more year-round school districts?

Maybe some people with teaching experience can fact-check me and expound on what they do over the summer. I think Chuck used to be a teacher, but he's probably also too smart to venture in for fear of me and Fuzzy hitting each other over the head... with Chuck.

That's why I like the adjusted wage chart on the last NPR page I posted, it's a more practical scale to just saying "Oh well it's $40,000". (I'm also comfortable with Hawaii being at the bottom of the chart...you live in Hawaii xD Only slightly kidding).

Though I will say as someone intimately familiar with teachers (My father and brother, and my roommate of two years was a teacher, plus all THEIR connections I've met) I will say I have never known one to work a summer job. Usually they are in school, learning like my roommate was or teaching at seminars like my dad, which were at best revenue neutral most times, the fringe benefit being he gets to go to Rome on their dime, or whatever. Their "summer" is also only about six weeks, with workshops and district meetings pre and post school year. That's to say nothing of NCLB which is constantly rolling out new standards between school years that they are kept up to date with in July and August which does sometimes require rewriting established lesson plans from scratch. It really just looks more like a work-from-home job for the summers these days than they were in the legendary olden times of the 1960s.

Darth Wedgius wrote: In California teachers make an average around $70,000. In South Dakota it's shy of $40,000. Of course, living in California is probably a lot more expensive than living in South Dakota.

It depends on where you live in California (the state is large and has a huge disparity between the populated and rural areas), but if you're like most people and live in one of the cities or even their sprawling suburbs, $70k is not a lot.

Another thing to consider is that due to state and local budget allocations, a lot of their salary ends up going back into the tools necessary to do their jobs; teachers often have to buy a lot of their own materials and other expenses, so that's not even a wage that you can consider going solely against the cost of living.

From nearly all of the teachers I've known, both as a student and as I've had friends go into the career as an adult, I've seen that this is not a line of work one goes into to become rich. It is a consistently undervalued and overworked field.

So a month and a half summer vacation? Maybe five weeks off, given a week of training for the new NCLB rules? I have to admit my ignorance. Especially after searching the web to find out that NCLB had nothing to do with basketball.

That's still a lot of vacation compared to what most people get, but it's a good point that they're often buying school supplies on their own, and probably putting in hours at night grading homework and tests. And if they're anything like me dealing with kids, there's the tequila budget to consider. Call it a wash, I suppose, and pay for 12 months of work. Because being more accurate would require me to think too much.

Both of my parents were teachers, so, yeah, they spent a lot more time working than just the length of the school day. This is why I don't get the attitude so many people seem to have toward teachers, which essentially describes them as babysitters and thus justifies their low pay, ignoring the education one has to pay for in order to become an educator themselves. Not to mention that the condescending "and they get a vacation every summer" ignores the fact that they have no income during that time, unless, like my dad, they have a 12-month contract which gave him year-round income, but at a lower rate per month. Of course as an ag./vo. tech. teacher and the FFA adviser, he was kept busy all year long. Also, even without a 12-month contract, teachers have to come up with a curriculum for the school year during the summer and submit it to their administrator(s) for approval, and often have to make changes that keep them busy for a long time during their "vacation."

You can summarize how much the country hates education with one of the saddest damn things in politics:

The State Lottery.

In Kentucky, it drew in almost three billion dollars over the past two decades. All of which went to education. Which....allowed the state government to reduce funding by almost three billion dollars over that period.

It's also done in every single state with them.

:weep:

CharlesPhipps wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:18 am You can summarize how much the country hates education with one of the saddest damn things in politics:

What? College enrollment is at a historical high.