Sfdebris.net

I.C.E., Immigration and Customs Enforcement, was created in the wake of 9-11 xenophobia.

They detain people indefinitely and without trial. They separate families. They have entire buses loaded up with baby seats.

ICE is a rogue government agency and they need to be shut down.

Fuzzy Necromancer wrote: ↑Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:21 am ICE is a rogue government agency and they need to be shut down.

As far as I'm concerned, this applies to anything connected to the Department of Homeland Security.

If you need to have a trial before detaining someone illegally crossing the border, wouldn't it have to be a very quick trial? And if law enforcement is not allowed to separate families, wouldn't a lot of people currently behind bars have to be freed? Or, alternatively, entire families put into prison, but I think that would be needlessly expensive.

Well, right now they put entire families into indefinite detainment, but they just also split them up.

The problem is not "detain", the problem is "indefinite." ICE can lock up immigrants, and then leave them in coolers for, well, as long as they damn well please, without ever filing charges or dealing with judge or jury.

Police can ARREST you when they perceive you doing something illegal, preferably with a warrant and certain due cause, and put you in the lockup, but sooner or later they have to either CHARGE you with a criminal act, which is followed by a trial to determine innocence or guilt, and if guilt, followed by an appropriate punishment, or they have to let you go.

As I said, splitting up families is pretty common. If someone with a family robs a convenience store, you can either (1) let the guy go because he has a family, (2) put the whole family in prison, which is needlessly expensive (and, ya know, maybe cruel), or (3) separate a family.

Do people captured by ICE have the option of going back home? If not, then I think we could fix the indefinite detention by fingerprinting and deporting them. If they are captured again, a quick trial followed by a lengthy prison sentence, followed by deportation. No need to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Again, let me remind you that ICE is employing options 2 and 3 simultaneously.

Crimes can be prosecuted through the court system. There is no reason why we need a shady rogue agency with far-reaching extrajudicial powers JUST to snatch up spanish-speaking people who crossed a line in the sand.

1. Don't come illegally

2. When you are committing a crime don't bring your kids

3. Any child with both parents in custody any all other potential guardians out of the country must be taken into custody until they are sent back to the country of origin to there next of kin. Releasing them on to the street is not really an option. Putting them in an adult detainment center is not a very good option ether.

Otherwise yes, but I want de-funding of almost ALL Government agencies.

Otherwise yes, but I want de-funding of almost ALL Government agencies.

It's what I love about Libertarians it's there deep, well thought out policies.

Fuzzy Necromancer wrote: ↑Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:21 am I.C.E., Immigration and Customs Enforcement, was created in the wake of 9-11 xenophobia.

They detain people indefinitely and without trial. They separate families. They have entire buses loaded up with baby seats.

ICE is a rogue government agency and they need to be shut down.

First of all, ICE was not created ex nihilo, but by combining several already existing agencies. We cannot shut down ICE unless we have plans for replacing it, unless you simply do not want anyone enforcing our immigration laws.

Secondly, these people can end their detention fairly quickly by agreeing to be deported to their country of origin. The reason people are detained is t hat when they are not, they tend not to show up to their deportation hearings; making the deportation system a joke.

The reason families are separated is because when we catch an adult with kids at the border, we can only detain the kids for a short time before we have to release them - in other words, unless we separate the kids from the adults they are with (who may or may not be their actual parents), bringing kids with you becomes an easy way to sneak into the country (what does it matter if ICE catches you if they have to let you go before there is a finding?) If we could deport people expeditiously, this would not be an issue, but various laws mean that people who actually cross the border and are not from Mexico wind up having to be detained instead of just turned away.

unknownsample wrote: ↑Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:56 pm

Otherwise yes, but I want de-funding of almost ALL Government agencies.

It's what I love about Libertarians it's there deep, well thought out policies.

Minarchism is not that complicated, and if not complete defunding then at least a heavy slash to all budgets. Bureaucracy is the fourth branch of the US government that the founders never intended to create and, there for, has no form of check or balance. It just grows without end.