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45 Embraces White Genocide conspiracy

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:46 am
by Fuzzy Necromancer
https://hopenothate.com/2018/08/26/maga-trends/

Every time I think I'm sufficiently desensitized and that I know what to expect, President Neelix still manages to prove to me that I have a soul left to wither and a heart left to sicken.

Re: 45 Embraces White Genocide conspiracy

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:13 pm
by Antiboyscout
So the South African constitution ISN'T being rewritten, and White and ONLY WHITE farmland is being confiscated BY force WITHOUT compensation?

Kinda hard to say this is a conspiracy when the head of state lays out the plan on national TV.

Re: 45 Embraces White Genocide conspiracy

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:53 pm
by unknownsample
Antiboyscout wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:13 pm So the South African constitution ISN'T being rewritten, and White and ONLY WHITE farmland is being confiscated BY force WITHOUT compensation?

Kinda hard to say this is a conspiracy when the head of state lays out the plan on national TV.
I am shocked, shocked to discover that the issue is actually a lot more complex than you and Trump make out.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... s-violence

Trump is referring to a virulent, racist conspiracy theory that has been a pet cause of hardcore white nationalists, neo-Nazis, and the alt-right for several years. More recently, Fox News’s Tucker Carlson, one of the president’s favorite conservative cable news pundits, has taken up the cause.

The conspiracy theory is based on the very real — and very controversial — issue of post-apartheid land reform in South Africa. But the white nationalists who propagate it have taken what is a genuinely thorny issue and magnified it beyond all objective fact, twisting it into what they see as a nightmare cautionary tale of “white genocide.”

Here’s what’s going on — and why it’s so disturbing that Trump is now basing US foreign policy decisions on a fringe white nationalist conspiracy theory.
I'm also shocked, shocked to discover that this is a conspiracy theory beloved by the far-right.

Re: 45 Embraces White Genocide conspiracy

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:47 pm
by LittleRaven
The situation in South Africa is super messy and seems destined to end in disaster. I'm generally rather optimistic about humanity's ability to pull through, but I have to admit, the future of SA looks...grim.

There's no question that white farmers are being murdered in horrible fashion, or at least that some of them are. But then, so is everyone else in the country - the murder rate in South Africa is quite high compared to anywhere in the west. There's also no question that what's currently happening in SA does not at all fit our modern understanding of 'genocide.' Farm murders, as horrible as they are, do not appear to be the result of any kind of pattern of violence designed to drive whites out of the country, and at least until very recently, the government of SA was not overtly engaging in racial policy making, much less racial extermination.

But there's a LOT of room between 'everything is fine' and 'everyone is dying' and it's frankly very difficult to tell just where on that gradient SA currently falls. Reliable data is hard to come by - there is not a lot of trust in public institutions left in the SA, and almost all statistics that come out of it are questionable at best. Antiboyscout is right that only white land is being reclaimed, but then, something like 75% of farmland in SA is currently held by whites despite them being a fairly small portion of the population, so, yeah, of course only white land is going to be claimed. On the other hand, we have guys like Julius Malema, who is the head of a major political party, making a point of saying that they are not calling for the murder of white people...FOR NOW.
In an interview with TRT World, published on Monday, Malema said he could not guarantee what would happen in the future, and warned that a revolution would happen if things continued as they are now.

"I'm saying to you, we've not called for the killing of white people, at least for now. I can't guarantee the future."

Asked by the presenter if he understood that to some this might sound like a "genocidal call", Malema responded, "Cry babies, cry babies!"
I can't help but think that Fuzzy would not be quite so nonplussed if Mitch McConnell gave an interview in which he bragged that the US wasn't just killing Mexican immigrants wholesale, well for now anyway, so why are they crying so much?

And as if a high crime rate and a horrifying taste in politicians weren't enough, SA finds itself staring at a double-barreled shotgun of capacity vs. need. If you actually watch Lauren Southern's documentary on farm killings (which I don't really recommend unless you're bored) you'll notice that while she pretty much fails to find any evidence of genocide, she finds lots and lots of evidence of climate change. Farms are literally turning into desert as the planet heats up. This trend is almost certainly going to continue - honestly, it's likely to speed up. This means the capacity of SA to support it's population is going to fall, even if there aren't political shenanigans, which appear increasingly likely. And what does that population look like?

Image

Now, remember what I said earlier about statistics. Getting good numbers is hard, and verifying them is harder. But this chart is basically in line with most of the numbers I can find online. And that trend line is terrifying. Don't be distracted by the racial component, race is irrelevant when it comes to feeding people. Even a country with a strong economy and a healthy political infrastructure would struggle to accommodate that level of growth, and SA doesn't score particularly well on either category. Syria has already shown us what can happen when climate change destroys the ability of a country to feed itself, and Zimbabwe offered a master class in what badly implement land reform looks like. South Africa may find itself in a worse situation than either of them very soon unless cooler heads prevail.

Of course, while this is all very unfortunate, for once, it really doesn't have much to do with America. We don't even have much in the way of a tangential connection to this mess. Trump is just flailing because he's had a bad, bad week at home.

Re: 45 Embraces White Genocide conspiracy

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:52 pm
by Fuzzy Necromancer
The phrase "white genocide" originates from the believe that interracial marraige will lead to the end of white culture, the annihilation of whiteness, becuase they're afraid of mixed-blood babies. The future WILL probably look an all-round middle-brown. That doesn't change the fact that calling the gradual fall in a certain phenotype due to genetic diversity "genocide" is a bit rich.

White Genocide concerns come from white people being terrified by the idea that they might not be a majority forever, and offended by the sight of black and brown babies. If you're scared that people who don't match your skin color are being born, I have nothing to say to you.

The only reason south africa is being brought into this is because it's a convenient excuse to pull out the White Genocide dog-whistle, if you can even call something that unsubtle a dog whistle.

Re: 45 Embraces White Genocide conspiracy

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:01 pm
by LittleRaven
Fuzzy Necromancer wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:52 pm The phrase "white genocide" originates from the believe that interracial marraige will lead to the end of white culture, the annihilation of whiteness, becuase they're afraid of mixed-blood babies.
Like a lot of phrases, 'white genocide' means different things in different contexts.

You are absolutely correct about how it is generally used online...especially on Youtube. However, Afriforum and other SA groups do not use it that way. They allege that there is an actual genocide taking place in SA right now - a violent displacement of white people by the government and/or paramilitary groups. They're wrong, of course, at least for now. And they totally capitalize on people who get the contexts confused. But they are ultimately talking about different things.

Re: 45 Embraces White Genocide conspiracy

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:33 pm
by Fuzzy Necromancer
I'm willing to at least tentatively accept that assertion from you LittleRaven, pending further updates as I learn more about the issue.

Re: 45 Embraces White Genocide conspiracy

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:24 am
by Antiboyscout
Considering this is being pushed by two political parties, the first being actual communist revolutionaries the second being the party that got into and maintains its power by making a deal with the teachers union to bring in more black teachers at the expense of teaching quality, I don't trust that there are any benevolent motivations behind this. They have the power so they take what they want from people too weak to fight back or not even allowed to fight back.

In Australia there's a ranch called Anna Creek Station that is 2 MILLION ACRES. It has to be that big because it's mostly empty desert. How much does that 1 ranch skew land ownership statistics. The north west part of South Africa is mostly empty desert with similar large ranches. Tswalu Kalahari is around 80,000 hectares and would be around 8.3% of total agricultural land in South Africa by itself. Now the South African government could surprise me and start distribution with, if not both the largest AND least profitable farms, the largest farms to get a better idea of the true ownership disparity, BUT let's be honest, that's not going to happen. The government Will start with the most profitable farms first. If they were devious about it, they could purposefully leave the largest ranches in the hands of whites to make the statistics look bad for as long as possible. They are taking what they want because they can. They rewrote the constitution to do it. Any protections, and it mean ANY protections, in the constitution are now worthless. It's just a peace of paper now.

You may not like it, but the Boer are a unique culture group who's homeland is not the Netherlands but Transvaal and Natal regions. If that land is taken from them it's a genocide. If the Boer refuse to leave and fight back it will be a much more obvious genocide.

Re: 45 Embraces White Genocide conspiracy

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:42 am
by TGLS
LittleRaven wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:47 pm Even a country with a strong economy and a healthy political infrastructure would struggle to accommodate that level of growth, and SA doesn't score particularly well on either category.
The sad part is that the level of growth is hardly exceptional. The hundred year growth rate (2.1%) is hardly out of line for most other countries (i.e. Vietnam had 2.4% from 1950 to 2000, Nigeria was at 2.8% from 1971 to 2008, India had 2.2% from 1970 to 2000)

Re: 45 Embraces White Genocide conspiracy

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:24 am
by Karha of Honor
unknownsample wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:53 pm
Antiboyscout wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:13 pm So the South African constitution ISN'T being rewritten, and White and ONLY WHITE farmland is being confiscated BY force WITHOUT compensation?

Kinda hard to say this is a conspiracy when the head of state lays out the plan on national TV.
I am shocked, shocked to discover that the issue is actually a lot more complex than you and Trump make out.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... s-violence

Trump is referring to a virulent, racist conspiracy theory that has been a pet cause of hardcore white nationalists, neo-Nazis, and the alt-right for several years. More recently, Fox News’s Tucker Carlson, one of the president’s favorite conservative cable news pundits, has taken up the cause.

The conspiracy theory is based on the very real — and very controversial — issue of post-apartheid land reform in South Africa. But the white nationalists who propagate it have taken what is a genuinely thorny issue and magnified it beyond all objective fact, twisting it into what they see as a nightmare cautionary tale of “white genocide.”

Here’s what’s going on — and why it’s so disturbing that Trump is now basing US foreign policy decisions on a fringe white nationalist conspiracy theory.
I'm also shocked, shocked to discover that this is a conspiracy theory beloved by the far-right.
Have you looekd at the discourse coming out of the left lately?