Sfdebris.net

Had a conversation with a young conservative Trump voter. He asked if we employed torture and painful execution, if it'd deter the crime rate. And then he wonders why some people think the average face of the Trump voter is someone like him? A cold-blooded monstrous sociopath with revenge fantasies?

And you'll be left in the dust, unless I stuck byyy ya.

I'm probably going to regret posting this, but here goes:

1) I agree with you that torture and capital punishment are bad, even more-so if the method of execution is deliberately painful.

2) I have no idea what the context in which you had your conversation was, or exactly what the young man said. Therefore, I am potentially missing a lot of information which could alter the following points.

3) IF all he did was ask whether draconian punishment would deter crime, it seems overly harsh to deem him a "sociopath with revenge fantasies". In my opinion there is a very big difference between asking whether an unpleasant solution would be for the good of society, and taking deliberate pleasure in the possibility (to give a star trek example, I'd say it is the difference between the Federation asking whether war with the Klingons is an inevitable outcome that justifies a preemptive attack, vs. an insane admiral of the week fantasizing about killing the Klingons out of a perverse joy). I think it is important for people to be free to discuss ideas and ask what the consequences of actions would be, even if we find the ideas morally revolting.

4) I really hope that I don't offend you with this last point as this is going to be a personal remark (I'm sorry), but I think it is a mite hypocritical of you to accuse someone else of indulging in revenge fantasies. Recently on another thread (I forget which), you yourself said that you would be happy if people that you found to be morally repugnant underwent a cessation of existence upon death. The morality is of course debatable, but I personally see the utter destruction of someone to be a horrible fate up there with torture. Consequently I find the sentiment "Would a cruel enforcement of my moral code reduce what I consider to be immoral behaviour?" less of a revenge fantasy than "I hope that people who by my moral code are immoral stop existing". Again, I repeat the disclaimer that this is completely personal opinion.

I do hope that I haven't upset you with #4 (as I've said, I'm already regretting this post), and as I've said I'm probably missing vital context, but I wanted to make my feelings known.

I sincerely hope that my opinions have been of some value to you, and that I have not hurt or offended you in any way

Short answer is that it does deter crime.

I'm not sure what thread you're talking about abki, but I'm only aware of Yuka objecting to how heaven welcomes people that have done unforgivable things.

BridgeConsoleMasher wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:23 pm Short answer is that it does deter crime.

I'm not sure what thread you're talking about abki, but I'm only aware of Yuka objecting to how heaven welcomes people that have done unforgivable things.

It took me a bit but I found the thread, it was the one about Voyager's mortal coil:

Yukaphile wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:31 am My take was truly horrible people have nothing waiting for them, just cessation of existence, which is something I'd deeply love to happen in reality.

I acknowledge that I could have totally read it out of context or that I could have read in a tone not intended by Yuka; having said that when I read the above it really caught in my mind for some reason. I probably won't comment further on this topic as I really don't want to be an ass, and I feel that I'm pushing it as is. I just wanted to get my feelings off my chest; and I apologize if my having done so has hurt anyone.

Didn't offend me. Though I've talked to this guy, and he's... unstable. Very puerile, and very... mentally not all there. He acts like he's ten years younger, and has mental conditions that I'm not aware of. I can see why he's driven everyone else he talks to away, which is something he complains about. It's because he comes off with an intensity of will that people find off-putting, and he seems crazy. In a way most would object to.

My reasons for disliking horrible people is personal, and I've harped on it long enough for people to get tired of it. Needless to say, if there was a fair and impartial justice system, in which everyone who's ever wronged someone had to somehow pay a price, from minor to large-scale crimes, which I've gone on record as stating, I'd be satisfied with it.

Glad to hear you weren't offended, and I'm not at all surprised I was missing context. I respect that you have personal reasons for your beliefs, and I won't draw things out further. All the best

abki wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:37 pm

Yukaphile wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:31 am My take was truly horrible people have nothing waiting for them, just cessation of existence, which is something I'd deeply love to happen in reality.

I acknowledge that I could have totally read it out of context or that I could have read in a tone not intended by Yuka; having said that when I read the above it really caught in my mind for some reason. I probably won't comment further on this topic as I really don't want to be an ass, and I feel that I'm pushing it as is. I just wanted to get my feelings off my chest; and I apologize if my having done so has hurt anyone.

I see. Yes he's talked about stuff quite a bit, as he's affirming ^above^. It's apparently a resentment for unchecked treatment that goes on in society. Naturally we don't really have an ordinance that neither prevents assailant behavior or can bring punitive measures to such people, so it's become an existential development fixating on how horrible such people are and the putrefaction they put society through.

My whole point was I'm against draconian punishment towards prisoners. Hell, my personal reasons kind of tend to have to do towards that. Because when you treat the enemy like scum, you become just like them. And you deserve some kind of sentence.

Yukaphile wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:49 pm Didn't offend me. Though I've talked to this guy, and he's... unstable. Very puerile, and very... mentally not all there. He acts like he's ten years younger, and has mental conditions that I'm not aware of. I can see why he's driven everyone else he talks to away, which is something he complains about. It's because he comes off with an intensity of will that people find off-putting, and he seems crazy. In a way most would object to.

Sounds like someone who would post on a forum that he will go away for 2 months..

Than starts a thread 4 hours later.

Even if this is a real anecdote, what is the purpose of this nut picking?