Florida governor refuses to recognise transgender swimmer

[clearspira]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/swimming/60842863

Finally some common sense. I'm sorry for you if you are trans, I really am, but if you have had the benefit of a man's puberty then you shouldn't be competing against naturally born women. You are bigger, stronger, faster. I mean ffs - just LOOK at that photo to see the difference.

I think its sexist, unfair, and one of the biggest threats to women's sport since the steroid abuse epidemic of the 1970s.

And the kicker here is that we have JUST gotten to the point where women's sport is being taken seriously. Where it has JUST started to get the same funding and coverage as men's sport and this is what happens.

[Draco Dracul]

It's quite funny that people only ever seem to care about women's sports when trans women. I mean you quite clearly don't give a single fuck about women's swimming because you don't know what top level women's swimmers look like.

Lia Thomason is actually a perfect example of why this is pure bullshit. If you take out the year where she was competing in Men's races while on estrogen, she went from being top eight men's swimming to top eight in women's swimming.

It's plain and simple bigotry not only against trans people, but against women in general as it states in no uncertain terms that you believe cis women to be innately inferior to AMAB people.

[Mickey_Rat15]

If that is true then what is the justification for having a separate division for women's sports, if not that there are inherent advantages in male physiology?

If there is a justification for women's sports as a separate category, what is the reasoning for separation on the basis of gender identity as a qualification?

[CmdrKing]

Because women started to compete evenly (or beat) men in some sports and got their feelings hurt, so they banned women, realized it was a bad look, and created women’s divisions a few years later

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madge_Syers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Shan

And of course numerous women’s sports leagues created during world wars then fully shut down to clear way for the returning men.

[Draco Dracul]

If that is true then what is the justification for having a separate division for women's sports, if not that there are inherent advantages in male physiology?

If there is a justification for women's sports as a separate category, what is the reasoning for separation on the basis of gender identity as a qualification?

People who have a lot of testosterone have an advantage in a lot of sports because testosterone helps you build muscle mass more easily. That's why historically both men and women have used it for doping.

Because of that women in basically every level of competition are tested for testosterone levels whether they are cis or trans. A trans women on HRT will on average have less testosterone than a cis woman, and a trans woman that has had bottom surgery will produce no testosterone.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

Yes, the right on this matter don't seem to understand the concept of leveling testosterone levels. Thus if I was arguing against trans inclusion, I would probably inquire about that as much if not more than relying on general fundamental principles of competition.

I don't think the transgender community is well versed on fair aspects of competition in a structurally pre-divided curriculum, given that they often argue in spite of acknowledging the combination of both the structural division mechanism already in place and the innately correlated physical discrepancy that evidently tends to allocate males at the top of the hierarchy despite very common overlap in the general population.

If it was a revolving door, then it does make more sense to allow women to compete at men's level but not the other way around without contextualizing men competing at the women's level. It'd be no different than a major league baseball player playing in the minors. It'd be rational decisioning to allow a women only league after being apprised of the marginalized status of women fairly competing/winning in men's events.

[Mickey_Rat15]

Because women started to compete evenly (or beat) men in some sports and got their feelings hurt, so they banned women, realized it was a bad look, and created women’s divisions a few years later

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madge_Syers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Shan

And of course numerous women’s sports leagues created during world wars then fully shut down to clear way for the returning men.

Figure skating at that time was still largely scored on a technical portion of the event called skating figures, which was not dependent on strength. Current top figure skating competitions no longer include that discipline because it is visually uninteresting (meaning figure skating no longer includes the part of the sport it was named for). Shooting is also a sport that is less dependent on physicality.

Let's take a look at track as something easily measurable. The world records for the 100 m dash is 9.58 s for men and 10.49 s for women. The 200 m is 19.19 s (men) and 21.34 s (women). The 400 m is 43.03 s (men) and 47.60 (women). The 10 km is 26m 11s (men) and 29m 17s (women). Marathon 2h 1m 39s (men) and 2h 15m 25s (women).

A superior time for top competition in the 100m for men is considered under 10 s and for women is under 11 s. There is a consistent differential there.

The notion that sports is segregated by sex for completely arbitrary reasons is not supportable.

[Mickey_Rat15]

If that is true then what is the justification for having a separate division for women's sports, if not that there are inherent advantages in male physiology?

If there is a justification for women's sports as a separate category, what is the reasoning for separation on the basis of gender identity as a qualification?

People who have a lot of testosterone have an advantage in a lot of sports because testosterone helps you build muscle mass more easily. That's why historically both men and women have used it for doping.

Because of that women in basically every level of competition are tested for testosterone levels whether they are cis or trans. A trans women on HRT will on average have less testosterone than a cis woman, and a trans woman that has had bottom surgery will produce no testosterone.

If high testosterone naturally gives men greater strength, then suggesting that women are at a disadvantage competing with men is not mere bigotry.

Going through male puberty also confers significant structural advantages to physiology that are not completely wiped away by hormone treatments or surgery.

And, just to point out that Thompson's male genitalia is intact.

[Draco Dracul]

Going through male puberty also confers significant structural advantages to physiology that are not completely wiped away by hormone treatments or surgery.

Unless it's a competion where height is the only notable competative edge that's simply not true. Both muscles mass and bone density are lost by reducing testosterone.

[hammerofglass]

I mean you can just check the win record, trans people have been competing as their real gender for decades now. If there were a disproportionate number of wins for trans women or not is the test. The article you linked gives the number of titles won by trans athletes as 1.

Besides, since when has sports been about being fair? They let Michael Phelps compete and he has a lot more of a natural advantage.