Sfdebris.net

Pretty much what the title says. Woke up today to find out that Special Council Muller is setting up a grand jury.

Now, this doesn't necessarily mean anyone will be indicted- as I understand it, the job of the grand jury is to determine that. But it does suggest that Muller (a man who is respected on both sides of the isle) feels that there is enough evidence to make a case for indictments.

Weather any indictments would include Trump himself, or just some of his subordinates, remains to be seen.

We truly do live in interesting times.

Anyway, I figured that this qualified as newsworthy. Let's try to keep this thread more civil than the last one.

PerrySimm wrote:Just wanted to talk some political science before the flames rise... As long as we're having side debates on voting methods, let's have a chat about how Grand Juries are a rotten borough of the justice system.

What exactly is useful about a panel of the prosecutor's friends being called in by the prosecutor to sign off on some paperwork? At best, it's theatre that catches obvious errors.

I'm not going to argue the overall merits of the grand jury system one way or the other, but was it your intention to suggest that Muller (who IIRC has a reputation for integrity) is going to pack the grand jury with his friends/supporters, and if so, do you have any reason to suspect that?

My post was immediately cast as political and has been withdrawn.

I was not attempting to "cast" your post as anything, nor did I assign any motives to you. I simply asked you to clarify your position, because your post could be taken as calling the credibility of the investigation into question.

And unfortunately, their will be (and already are) a lot of people who will look for any excuse, real or fabricated, to dismiss the investigation as corrupt if it does not yield the result that they want. Probably about 40% of the country, one way or the other. That's a big problem, both in the short term because it means their could easily be rioting that makes the fall-out of the Fergusson case look mild, and in the long term, because it further undermines public trust in democratic institutions, the rule of law, and the judicial system. So I'd rather not give them more ammunition.

For my part, I believe that Trump and his inner circle are probably all as dirty as the Devil's arsehole, but if the investigation does not yield indictments, well, there are a lot of reasons that could happen. You don't always get the verdict that you want, or deserve. That's something that shouldn't be (but sadly often is) partisan. So I'll try to give the process the benefit of the doubt unless I have good reason not to.

So, don't have a good source at the moment (apologies), but apparently a grand jury allows them to further pursue other avenues of investigation, in terms of getting subpoenas and so on. And the investigation is currently divided into four teams, following four main avenues:

1. Russian hacking/interference in the election.

2. The possibility of collusion by people on the Trump team.

3. Obstruction of Justice.

4. Trumpian financial dealings/money laundering.