Utah passes anti-trans bathroom ban

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

https://www.gayemagazine.com/post/utah- ... e_vignette

The first state to ban trans people from peeing, thereby banning their public existence. More to follow if the Republicans gain ground.

[Madner Kami]

https://www.gayemagazine.com/post/utah- ... e_vignette

The first state to ban trans people from peeing,

Look, I won't argue about how aweful such laws are, but could you kinda avoid pretending that it's worse than it already is?

[Fuzzy Necromancer]

I'm not. If trans people can't use the bathroom, they are effectively banned from public life.

[hammerofglass]

Have not read the bill but going by the the article intersex people can't use ANY bathroom.

[Nobody700]

Have not read the bill but going by the the article intersex people can't use ANY bathroom.

Yeah well when did bigots ever worry about their actions harming people... ever?

Remember, when a woman was told her actions hurt Cis women when attacking trans people... she said who gives a shit, what mattered more was making all women suffer.

[Madner Kami]

I'm not. If trans people can't use the bathroom, they are effectively banned from public life.

The law demands they use the bathroom of their genotypical sex. That's not the same as not being allowed to use bathrooms at all. That's bad enough as is, especially considering the implications of a transitioning or transitioned transwoman going to men's bathroom or vice versa.

Have not read the bill but going by the the article intersex people can't use ANY bathroom.

Logic or even attempting to think something through hasn't been a strong suit of the political right in quite a while now. Whenever something comes along that disagrees with their point of view, they just default to their natural mental state...

[TGLS]

The first state to ban trans people from peeing, thereby banning their public existence. More to follow if the Republicans gain ground.

Calm down Fuzzy, it's not like they've changed the law to define gender transition to not be in the best interests of the child when determining whether parents can keep their children.

Cause that's what Wyoming wants to do!

[clearspira]

The first state to ban trans people from peeing, thereby banning their public existence. More to follow if the Republicans gain ground.

Calm down Fuzzy, it's not like they've changed the law to define gender transition to not be in the best interests of the child when determining whether parents can keep their children.

Cause that's what Wyoming wants to do!

“To the extent applicable, in determining the best interests of the child under state law, there shall be a conclusive presumption that it is not in the best interests of the child to undergo any gender transition or gender reassignment procedures as defined by W.S. 20-2-206(a).” The list includes puberty blockers, hormone therapy, and surgery.''

...

Should a child automatically be removed from trans parents or because they themselves are trans? No. Of course not. That is needlessly cruel. Having a loving parent is the greatest and most valuable thing that you can have no matter who those parents are. I would argue that the love of your mum and dad is second only to food, water and air.

It's the bit that I highlighted that I have a problem with.

Apologies for the language but I really want to stress something here: you know absolutely FUCK and ALL about who and what you are when you are a child. You know nothing about real life, nothing about who you want to be when you grow up. Your hormones are in flux, your body is changing, your desires and wants are different, you'll have feelings and emotions that you've never had before and do not know what to do with, your interactions with other people are changing. Additionally, at no other stage in your life will you be as open to more negative influence from propaganda, peer pressure and social media. That's why terrorists and extremists target young men and not jaded old buggers like me who can see through their bullshit.

There will never ever be a more confusing and uncertain time in your life than between the ages of 11 and 18.

None of these procedures or treatments should be legal to give to a child. And the internet is full of stories of people who transitioned as soon as they could only to find out that they aren't actually trans. Google it, page after page. This isn't an isolated thing and they all say the same things: I was confused, I was pressured, I changed my mind, I was actually gay and didn't realise it.

This is not a game. This is potentially the next one hundred years of your life and you are not mentally equipped to make a decision on it after little more than a tenth of it has passed. And frankly it worries me that there are those in our society who deem that you are capable of deciding upon the future of your willy before you are legally allowed to buy a beer or smoke a cigarette.

[BridgeConsoleMasher]

A lot of reactionary zeitgeist has to do with medical procedures being suggested to adolescents as part of the political trans movement. I know very well how there's a lot of peoples rights being advocated and I'm not wondering about that, but is there a breakdown of where this feed is coming from that is making the waves in the right wing media that doctors are pushing this on children or something? I hardly expect it to derail a progressive effort on behalf of people's rights, but what kind of issues are people getting on about?

[Madner Kami]

I doubt it's hard to find the examples you're looking for. I mean, just think about the community of deaf people, where there's an undeniable trend to force their nominally deaf children into a deaf lifestyle, even when stuff like cochlear implants could remove the handicap. I don't feel it's far fetched to expect, that similar things happen in other niche groups, too. In fact, I'd be surprised if there were not, because you can find this kind of behaviour in every exclusive group.

The real question is: How can you distinguish between the bad apple parents and those who genuinely need the help and change? And, let's be honest here, sex-transition is best done before puberty hits for obvious reasons. Naturally that is a very sensitive time of life though, where everything that Clearspira says is absolutely true. You might feel you're different and in hindsight, it might be absolutely clear what was "wrong" with you for lack of a better word, but at the time? Could you really have told what exactly it was, before you really had a chance to understand what is going on? Just think about the kids that were born intersex and before they themselves could decide and figure out, who they are or who they want to become, their parents or in many cases even just a doctor decides for them. An essentially irreversible decission made for life, based on the preferences of someone else. I feel that same danger applies here.
So, again: Should children be given the chance to transition before their biology forces it's imperatives on their potentially divergent mental faculties? Absolutely yes. The conundrum is in figuring out, however, how to make this an informed decission and if this can't be achieved, then find the common ground that does the least potential harm.