Why Does the Disney Sequel Trilogy Hate Anakin?

[McAvoy]

Okay, this is something that's been bugging me since TLJ came out and that is one we NEVER saw Luke training Leia to be a Jedi until ROS and outside of her Mary Poppins herself back to her ship which given this Trilogy's mishandling of the Force doesn't prove that Luke trained her (and that scene WAS a case of Kennedy wanting a scene of Leia using the Force and Johnson doing his best with what he had). And the second thing Luke didn't teach Rey ANYTHING!

Luke spends the whole film refusing to teach Rey and instead goes on about how much the Jedi Suck and how they need to end. The most we get is teaching her how to connect with the Force which is something she could already do as shown in The Force Awakens so it hardly counts.

Even the deleted 3d lesson wasn't teaching Rey about the Jedi and honestly that deleted scene just further highlights to me that Johnson didn't understand the Jedi as Luke makes a point how a Jedi wouldn't get involved in conflict except that's the whole POINT of the Jedi. Regardless if you watched the first two trilogies in release or chronological order the first time we see a Jedi is them GETTING involved in a conflict to save lives. Obi-Wan even kinda mocks the idea of not getting involved given his tone of voice when he talks about Owen not wanting Anakin to get involved in the Clone Wars.

Also, WHY did Luke want the Jedi to end. He screwed up once and Kylo escalated things and killed everyone who wouldn't join him. The Jedi order and it's core beliefs had NOTHING to do with that.

I know that TLJ wanted to make Luke's arc about him loosing faith in the Jedi and finding a new hope for the Jedi but Luke WAS Suppose to be that Hope. He's the New Hope AND the Return of the Jedi. Both titles have a double meaning that refer to Luke.

Yeah Rey using the force in TFA is basically a middle finger to Luke and Anakin since both could only use the force in a very basic manner and it was clear that they were supposed to be unique, not just talented but unique as in this was something no one was so ever supposed to be able to do. You could say its meant as a hint that Rey is not normal, but it feels more like lazy writing. They needed a way for Rey to escape and they had to show she had the force so she uses the force to escape, even though she shouldn't be able to!

Personally, I never liked the Jedi because they were always so rigid it seemed stupid. It's like they will follow their code right off a cliff without question and anyone who does is clearly not a Jedi. I played a Jedi on SWTOR and found it both frustrating and boring, so I made a 'noble Sith' and had some of the most fun I ever had on an MMO. The point is if every Jedi, or Sith, has to follow the exact same pattern, it gets very boring because it is essentially the same story over and over again.

I agree.

We had three movies to establish Luke going from farm boy to green Jedi to be to the Jedi who defeated Vader in single combat. With all of the pitfalls inbetween and Vader holding back consciously in Empire and unconsciously in Return.

Anakin didn't even demonstrate any Force abilities outside his piloting skills in Phantom of the Menace.

Jedi are pretty boring to play as technically they woukd be considered Lawful Good. Probably the most boring of them all.

I honestly would have liked to see a noble Sith. Would have been interesting.

[CharlesPhipps]

I'm sorry to keep bringing this up but She-Ra did this so much better. After her fall from power and being confronted by Double Trouble on how she has no one but herself to blame for her everyone leaving we get 6 episodes focused on Catra turning from the Horde and joining the Rebellion and the rest of the series is her doing her best to become a better person

Catra unfortunately lost most of her character by being redeeming. No one seems wilking to write a redemption arc where the heroes make a concentrated attempt to redeem someone and that attempt FAILS, which undermines the difficulty that redemption should invoke. But as I said it, the best moment of Catra was when she proved willing to kill EVERYONE and She-Ra finally realized her friend was beyond redemption.

Backtracking as they immediately did.

But I think we've had this conversation before.

[Winter]

I'm sorry to keep bringing this up but She-Ra did this so much better. After her fall from power and being confronted by Double Trouble on how she has no one but herself to blame for her everyone leaving we get 6 episodes focused on Catra turning from the Horde and joining the Rebellion and the rest of the series is her doing her best to become a better person

Catra unfortunately lost most of her character by being redeeming. No one seems wilking to write a redemption arc where the heroes make a concentrated attempt to redeem someone and that attempt FAILS, which undermines the difficulty that redemption should invoke. But as I said it, the best moment of Catra was when she proved willing to kill EVERYONE and She-Ra finally realized her friend was beyond redemption.

Backtracking as they immediately did.

But I think we've had this conversation before.

Yeah, we've had this conversation before but one thing I don't think you've never said is how redeeming Catra made her lose most of her character. She's still as angry, snarky and as arrogant as she was at the start she just learns to try and be a better person. There's a difference between this is not the same character we met at the start the series after their redemption (Ben Solo has NOTHING in common with Kylo Ren) and this is the same character but their trying to be better.

I get that you don't agree with me but I don't think you've really explained your point on this.

[CharlesPhipps]

Yeah, we've had this conversation before but one thing I don't think you've never said is how redeeming Catra made her lose most of her character. She's still as angry, snarky and as arrogant as she was at the start she just learns to try and be a better person. There's a difference between this is not the same character we met at the start the series after their redemption (Ben Solo has NOTHING in common with Kylo Ren) and this is the same character but their trying to be better.

I get that you don't agree with me but I don't think you've really explained your point on this.

Catra was an interesting character because she DID believe in the Horde's philosophy. As the one kicked around her entire life, she knew the only thing to do is to be the one to do the kicking. It was an interesting example of the bad guy and showing that she's an ideological convert taken from the worst.

But that's my take on it.

I have no skin in the game, just feel it was the lesser choice.

[Winter]

Catra was an interesting character because she DID believe in the Horde's philosophy. As the one kicked around her entire life, she knew the only thing to do is to be the one to do the kicking. It was an interesting example of the bad guy and showing that she's an ideological convert taken from the worst.

But that's my take on it.

I have no skin in the game, just feel it was the lesser choice.

I respecfully disagree as Catra never believed in the Horde's Philosophy as she flat out states as such. The Horde was just a means to an end with Hordak only using it to insure he could work on his portal in peace and this is something we see reflected in Shadow Weaver whom Catra clearly molded herself after. Catra, as stated in the text of the show, wants love and friendship but because of Shadow Weaver's Wonderful and not at all flawed Parenting method warped her belief into think that what she wanted was power and validation.

As stated before I like Catra's arc because of how realistic it is because she's an abuse victim who sadly takes after her abuser but does try to better herself.

While I do like Vader's arc and feel that he's death was an appropriate end to his arc I still find it annoying when a character who does something wrong dies because redemption is a never ending battle. There's more to be done with a character who must atone instead of killing them off and calling it a day.

[McAvoy]

Vader dying basically played out like going Dark Side, you end up with a split personality. A perfectly split one, where the Dark side one is seperate from the Light Side or original personality. So once Anakin came back out in the end, Vader was gone and it was just Anakin. Doesn't explain how Anakin became a Force Ghost though.

The thing also about redemption arcs that it can effectively end at death. Your last action is do the right thing even if it means death. Doesn't excuse what has been done before. Only Luke and friends would probably know about that.

The thing about death is that character arc can still continue as a legacy well after death. Good or bad. Like for example originally once Vader kills the Emperor and then he dies, Luke is alone as the sole (give or take) trained Force user. It allows him to train new Jedi without fear of the Sith. Since the Rule of Two was broken at the time. Luke is afterall the legacy of Anakin.

[Beastro]

Jedi are pretty boring to play as technically they woukd be considered Lawful Good. Probably the most boring of them all.

I honestly would have liked to see a noble Sith. Would have been interesting.

The Light and Dark are kept too one dimensional and conflated with good and evil that then runs contradictions, at least in the films. It's mashing amoral order and chaos with Western moral ones around the characteristics of what makes people evil and how they associate.

A example of the latter is why all Orcs are evil in Tolkien's work. They are corrupted by Melkor and all seek to emulate him as much as they hate what he's done to them. Every Orc wishes to be the Dark Lord and serves the Enemy in some vain hope of getting to the top and finally dominating everyone else, however futile that chance may be. We then see their contentiousness acting out in LotR.

Star Wars has that same archetypal element to the Sith, but then the Dark Side is also meant to be just one side to an amoral power that people can tap into.

The Jedi need some room for "Kill em all and let the Force recognize its own" types in its history. SW refused to allow any room for the Sith and we see the comical shift in Anakin over what seems like a few days. You go Sith you get narrowed down to being a stereotype. I know there's some nuanced examples in the EU.

[cilantro]

Okay, that's a bit of a joke as I doubt anyone in this Trilogy went in with the mindset of "Let's render Anakin's Entire character arc meaningless" but it does sometimes feel like that.

Anakin's entire character arc was about him trying to save his family and atoning for his past sins and in the end he saves his son, his daughter and lays the ground work for the restoration for the Jedi Order and the return of the Republic and kills the man who ruined his life. And then TDST kills his entire family, including his grandson who had the EXACT SAME CHARACTER ARC AS HE DID! Destroyed the Jedi Order and the Republic, left the future of the galaxy in the hands of a bunch of screw ups who are more interested in the past then they are the future and all of this was the result of Palpatine who survived being blown up!!!

It's often argued which character got the most screwed over in TDST with some even noting that Rey was also done dirty because of the films refusing to give her an actual character but I think Anakin is a real contender for Original Trilogy character who the films really screwed over. Lucas recognized the potential in Vader even though he started the series as a minor character with only 9 minutes of screen time but he ended up helping shape the whole series into what it is today. Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker is the MOST iconic character in this series so, why work to render his arc completely pointless in what is (for the time being) the grand finale of the saga?

You can tell that they didn't care about the OG Star Wars and the Prequels when they had Ray, buried his lightsaber in the sand and take over Uncle Own's moisture farm.

[Winter]

You can tell that they didn't care about the OG Star Wars and the Prequels when they had Ray, buried his lightsaber in the sand and take over Uncle Own's moisture farm.

Yeah, the ending of ROS really is TDST in a nutshell, it's Star Wars imagery for the sake of nostalgia but has no real understanding of the lore. No one in the Skywalker family liked Tatooine, Anakin grew up as a slave and lost his mother there and hoped to never see the planet again (as stated in the the Clone Wars movie). Luke spent his entire youth hoping to one day leave said planet and lost his aunt and uncle and nearly lost his surrogate family when he returned and Leia lost her entire rebel cell and when she returned was made into a slave.

It also highlights how little they cared about Rey as she ends the Trilogy as she started it, a loner in the desert more interested in the past then the future. The same thing happened in TLJ as she started teh film hating Kylo Ren for the death of one of the Original Trio, saw Luke as a great hero and wondered how she fit into all this.

This Trilogy has no interest in characters and does whatever it can to distract you from the fact that it clearly has no story to tell.

[McAvoy]

Well the Sequel trilogy really didn't do much with the characters as far as growth. Poe is the same. Finn was the same. Chewie is Chewie. Hell C3PO woukd have a nice end to his own Star Wars arc even if the reasoning was dumb. But they brought back his memories.