Babylon 5's WEIRD Relationship with the Afterlife

[hammerofglass]

You'd think a race close enough to ascending that the lack of psychic powers is what's holding them back would just genetically modify themselves to be psychic. The Narn seemed to think it was well within their current technology, even if the plan never got off the ground.

[Beastro]

You'd think a race close enough to ascending that the lack of psychic powers is what's holding them back would just genetically modify themselves to be psychic. The Narn seemed to think it was well within their current technology, even if the plan never got off the ground.

This is missing the themes and symbolism of the series.

The show very much has in mind the Myth of Progress and that there is a correct way of evolving towards a preferred end point. That path is to embrace certain views and values and let go of past ones which restrain and hobble. The Young Races were getting there, but the Vorlon and Shadow feud was beginning to restrain them, that is why they needed to be overthrown and those races freed from overarching authority. The Young Races are thus to be liberated to become the ideal end point of life and join with those who have walked the path before them. Going "beyond the rim" is B5 heaven pretty much; it is both right and moral, which is why the legacy of B5 over the course of the rest of the settings history is always to bring people back on that correct path (The monks working on post-apoc Earth to restore Mankind to their old position, not just technologically, but within this framework.

The issue with the Narn and Centauri is that they don't let go of the past hatreds and values and remain stuck. The Narn are full of revenge, the Centauri consumed with past imperial glory. They fail to be correct in the way advanced life should be.

B5 is very much sitting astride Sci-Fi and Fantasy. Indeed, JMS much drew from LOTR in formulating it (Minbari are Elves proud and aloof, Narn are Dwarves temperamental and prone to grudges), only he lacked the intrinsic, dream-like and moral advantages of a Fantasy setting which makes those elements stand out as odd in contrast to the typical Modernist Star Trek values being expressed in the show.

Such a position conflates advancement with evolution as Star Trek and much of Sci-Fi to this day does (but not as badly as mid-20th century). This is a fundamentally religious point of view as it is expressing a value stance, but Whiggish Historiagraphy is religious in essence which is at the heart of both it and Star Trek. It is simply a more overt example of Modernist myth making to encapsulate and express the Eras ideals. JMS just has less of a hardness towards religion so it comes out more openly mixed than Treks more ideological ridged way.

People have to keep in mind how science often isn't the biggest or most important thing in Sci-Fi. It's for that same reason science is thrown into superhero stuff, but the prime focus with them is a Modern obsession with gods fit into a semi-Christian moral framework.

But Centauri have psychics? They can view their own future death. Oracles can see for others. And they have a few telepaths. The Narn psychics were wiped out and why they want to borrow others to reinvigorate that line in their species again.

Yes, what I said was the Narn won't ascend because they don't have psychics and the Centauri won't ascend because their society is an eternal clusterfuck.

No, it's because they Narn continue down the path of vengeance. Had they taken up more fully G'Kar's teachings they could have pulled away, but they fail to and remain stuck in the same cycle, fade and diminish. G'Kar himself doesn't fully embrace the Army of Light when he should have ignored the plight of his people to support the bigger battle that will save them. As a result he fails despite what he's learned. G'Kar IS the Narn. They are better than the Centauri and willingly join the Interstellar Alliance, but still fall short.

Then Centauri refuse to let go of their old glory and remain held fast to regaining it. They become a broken backwater unwilling due to hurtful pride to embrace a new and better way of looking at things because it means they have to take a spot among many other races rather than being the greatest among them.

To put it in LOTR terms, the Centauri are what Galadriel would have become. She came to Middle Earth because she'd rather have been the greatest among the least than the least among the greatest in heaven. She refused to penitently return until she faced the moment when she could have attained everything she ever desired and rejected it.

Lando IS the Centauri. He is tempted, fails the test and him trying to make amends only saves his people for so long. Instead of setting himself up an exemplar who might have changed their course like G'Kar, he instead gets everything he wants and mourns that it's all now ashes.

Both had their chances of being with Sheridan, Delenn and company, but they strayed.

They very much express JMS' secularist ideals through his soft spot for religion:

As they were walking along the road, a man said to him, “I will follow you wherever you go.”
Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”
He said to another man, “Follow me.”
But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”
Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”
Still another said, “I will follow you, Lord; but first let me go back and say goodbye to my family.”
Jesus replied, “No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.”

All of this is why they both end their lives strangling each other to death.

[CharlesPhipps]

Evolution doesn't have an end point but "immortal energy being" is a pretty sweet deal so its a distinction without a difference.

[Frustration]

If I remember JMS said something about to gain that non corporeal body, you gotta find inner peace or something. Something the Narn and Centauri never could do. As in he implies they both continue to fighter each other. I really have to find that quote.

You have to use your control over energy to translate yourself into an energy form that uses its control over energy to reinforce itself. To do that, it's almost necessary for you to both understand and accept yourself - if you don't, the temptation to 'correct' the pattern and try to create yourself as you'd prefer yourself to be is overwhelming, the cycle doesn't complete properly, and you simply die.

Even in a fully enlightened race, that understands its own psychology and fully endorses its own nature, most of the beings attempting to ascend die in the process - something like one in ten individuals survive. There are exceptions, though - the Pak'ma'ra evolved on a planet naturally rich in Quantium-40 from some cosmic accident (or decayed relics of the First Ones), and 90% of their population survived their ascension event.