Star Wars: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

[King of the owls]

Just came back from seeing it. It's a great film but there things to well nitpick? Considered weak points?
First of all as mentioned the First Order still isn't really defined. I kinda get the vibe they were a fraction of the new republic that believed the Empire was wrongly overthrown by radicals and somehow got enough funds/support to make Starkiller base,apparently several dreadnoughts,and the means to improve Empire weapons to begin "Resorting" order. But still it feels like we're missing a bit of word building.

Second-The Casino stuff. On one hand it accomplished a lot of things but on the other it felt out of place and better suited for a episode for Star Wars Rebels or even the Clone Wars.(If there's ever a new TV series set in this timeline. There'll be a heist episode on this planet.) Not the worst thing in the world but I know for some it will feel pointless filler that's ruining the tension.
Third-Leia's force flight. I get what they were thinking. Leia needs some BA force related moment but it looked a bit goofy(I blame the CGI.) again not the worst thing but I'm sure there were better ideas on the table.

Fourth- Captain Plasma. Look I know we need a named stormtrooper for Finn to fight but at least give them a few BA moments beforehand. Hell at least don't put that cool looking armor to waste, make all stormtroopers captains wear that armor.

Now for the good.
Kylo Ren and Rey and their characters arcs. Not to say the other new characters had unsatisfying arcs but both their arcs felt well written and smart. Their dynamic is great and I can't wait to see the next part of the their acrs.

The visuals were indeed impressive. The lightspeed kamikaze was a sight to behold. Whoever designed that scene deserves a nice Christmas bonus.

Luke's arc. I know for some the idea Luke would try to murder his student(even for a second) seems wrong. He's a childhood hero to many, a stand in father figure for some and for plenty a person to aspire to be. And to think he would even for a second consider murdering someone as young and someone who looked up to him, it just feels wrong. And yet it's supposed to be, Luke made a mistake, he let his fear and perhaps anger get to him. (And while some of us may harp on the prequels, the line about fear eventually leading to suffering still holds true.) If you personally think this film did a disservice to Luke's character then you're entitled to that. I thought it was a logic choice. But I get where people are coming from. I hate what they did to superman in man of steel but for some Superman was fine in that movie. In the any case great use of Mark Hamill in this movie.(And the stand off between Luke and Kylo Ren. Boy that felt satisfying.)

The emotional tension of this movie was well done.(Even if the casino stuff gets in the way of that.) The use of a ticking clock and the emphasis of how outmatched the resistance truly is really builds the sense of dread. Though it's not as a bleak as Rouge one(In some regards.) you do find yourself fearing for these character's lives.

The themes of failure and letting go the past was executed nicely and I hope we get more of it in the next movie. It wasn't spelled out for the audience and it fits with Star Wars lore I feel. The reason why this entire conflict even is happening because people aren't letting go of the past. Luke trained the jedi order the old ways. The First Order believed life under the empire was better. Snoke believed in the old ways of Sith. Before his change Kylo Ren believed Darth Vader's plans were right and should be continued. The only way this conflict will truly end if people let go of the past. And as mentioned all the character's excessive failures lead to a lot of death or grief but they learn from it and become stronger. They become better people.

Finally the twist of Snoke. I did have a small feeling it was a possible outcome but it was well done. Sure it proves Snoke was more of a plot device than a character but eh it could be argued the emperor was the same way in the OT.

I have a lot more thoughts but this is a essay at this point so I'll stop for now. Rian Johnson did a impressive job and this does make me curious where he takes the next trilogy.

[PerrySimm]

The film satisfied as a popcorn flick, but is wanting for basic logic and seems more willing to make new characters than find a truly unique story to tell.

It "wasn't" Empire Strikes Back... No, it was just a movie about the untold story of the Rebel fleet leaving Hoth. The execution feels a little like Battlestar Galactica meets Star Trek. Maybe with larger opposing fleets, less shields, smaller hits, more realistic damage, it could have been a much tenser situation. If they wanted to go whole hog on the naval convoy concept they might have tried cloaked enemy ships in place of submarines, but alas.

A lot of other things just kind of fall apart with any amount of thought. It's already been mentioned, why doesn't the fleet shuffle and scatter? Finn can recognize a "cloaked binary beacon" at a glance? Sure sounds like something that'd be easy to track through hyperspace, however cloaked it claims to be. Toss it off the ship and put an end to this '33' fiasco. ... Oh, but that's not the thing that the bad guys are tracking. Even though later on in the film "cloaked" things are easily pinpointed?! And since stealth communications are a thing now, just how did the First Order fail to intercept the communique Poe opened with Maz Kanata? Finn and Rose should have been caught before they even got to Planet Vegas.

Why would you even have Captain Phasma built up as a thing if this is all she's going to do?

Leia survives to the end of this movie, so are they just going to go with "she died offscreen somewhere" to explain her Episode IX absence?

Gwendoline Christie is wasted under the mask, and the shiny armour evokes little more than "har har, it's Brienne of Tarth". In this tale we see that Kylo Ren is obsessed with breaking free of the past and crushing masks. Why is Phasma still fighting the same battles with the same hat on? How about a promotion to "Commander" at least?

As for Leia, unless they have a fair bit more in the can, "died on a bus" seems to be the only way. It was possible to recut this film to have a death at any number of points, but not really after landing on the planet, and

The one thing I loved about this film is how our new heroes FAILED spectacularly. I mean Finn, Poe and Rose get a lot of good people killed with a well meaning but poorly thought out plan (Though if Holdo had just told them what she was doing....). Then there's Rey...who lost her **** mind and all but hurled herself into the arms of an enemy she had no chance against.

It is of some interest to see what happens when the heroes fail, But it's also cheap when the villains are so arrogant they can't efficiently reach their goals. Episode VII was at least better in making the bad guys not a bunch of knuckle-draggers, but if Rogue One is any indication, dumb bad guys are back for keeps.

I still feel like I don't have a great idea of what the First Order even is. I mean, do they have boots on the ground all over the galaxy?

Yeah, there's zero context to understand the galactic problems that caused Leia Organa to be treated like a fringe element for opposing the First Order. Either much of the galaxy abhors the chaos of the New Republic and wishes the Empire would just come back already, or the entire conflict we see is just some tempest-in-a-teapot brush war - Leia's Resistance is akin to Flying Tigers adventurism, and the New Republic is still doing fine in the core worlds, oblivious to the horrors on the fringe.

So, porg on a stick anyone?

Out of curiosity, does hamsterduck taste more like ham or chicken?

Luke's error was in trying to rebuild the Jedi as they were; the destruction of the tree and the writings is a good way to symbolize that what's needed is a new approach.

Luke should have gone through with it without help. It might have been sorta cool, but giving dead Yoda 'summon lightning' powers is possibly the worst idea since midichlorians.

If you personally think this film did a disservice to Luke's character then you're entitled to that. I thought it was a logic choice.

I liked what they did with Luke, though not really how the flashbacks were done. If so much of the new series is the practice of "legend" - then any tale should have been oral history, and focused on convincing the audience of the sincerity of the storytellers.

I disagree with the need for Luke to die, but at the very least, if whatever Luke is doing is lethally taxing - then there should have been no getting back up after collapsing. Or just phasing out toward the end of the projection, maybe with a look of pain or exertion, at least a little tension somewhere!

[Karha of Honor]

Just came back from seeing it. It's a great film but there things to well nitpick? Considered weak points?
First of all as mentioned the First Order still isn't really defined. I kinda get the vibe they were a fraction of the new republic that believed the Empire was wrongly overthrown by radicals and somehow got enough funds/support to make Starkiller base,apparently several dreadnoughts,and the means to improve Empire weapons to begin "Resorting" order. But still it feels like we're missing a bit of word building.

I guess Disney managed to make the Galaxy as depressign as the post Vong War EU in that case. Only the Legacy comcis were cool after that.

[SabreMau]

I still feel like I don't have a great idea of what the First Order even is. I mean, do they have boots on the ground all over the galaxy?

Yeah, there's zero context to understand the galactic problems that caused Leia Organa to be treated like a fringe element for opposing the First Order. Either much of the galaxy abhors the chaos of the New Republic and wishes the Empire would just come back already, or the entire conflict we see is just some tempest-in-a-teapot brush war - Leia's Resistance is akin to Flying Tigers adventurism, and the New Republic is still doing fine in the core worlds, oblivious to the horrors on the fringe.

Rey did tell Luke that the First Order was only weeks away from controlling all the major systems.

[Madner Kami]

Rey did tell Luke that the First Order was only weeks away from controlling all the major systems.

Which doesn't make any goddamn fucking sense. Either they were a splinter faction that posed no obvious thread, so that the Senate could dwell in it's apparent lethargy without facing a major political upheaval or they were a major force that could hollow out a planet and build the biggest Deathstar that there ever was (remember, Palpatine's Empire was brought to collapse due to the costs involved in building two moon-sized objects), in addition to a staggering amount of capital ships and troops, which were enough to bring down a state that is literally galaxy-sized and consists of thousands of planets by blowing up five planets and seizing all major assets in a matter of weeks, maybe months at most, while the entire Republic had their thumbs up their collective arse for no reason whatsoever, while facing no repercussions from any of it's member states for the obvious stupidity in pretending that nothing is going on.

The First Order exists in a limbo between these two mutually exclusive states and it blows my mind, that the writers are not seeing this and trying to rectify it. Either they are a splinter group that just could not have the resources it apparently has or they are a superpower and everybody in a goddamned 1000 planet state is stupid enough to pretend that they aren't.

[SabreMau]

It's the New Republic's fault for having virtually every warship they had left parked around the capital world. Probably beat the Empire then decided to scrap and sell most of their fleet to show how peaceful and Alderaanian they could be.

[ORCACommander]

Also the timeline for this is at most a few weeks after the star killer was destroyed otherwise the rebels would never have been caught flat footed on the ground. The first order for it to exist properly for me requires great leaps of logic.

1st the empire didn't stay contiguous. that it broke up into a lot of smaller stellar states. the first order and the republic could be a couple of the larger ones.
Second, that the republic doesn't want to poke the bear so to speak and in the new international community doesn't want to be seen as an aggressor so they discretely fund and provide personnel for the resistance.

or completely alternate that the empire mostly remained intact and that only enough systems broke away after the death of palpitine that the rebranded empire would be willing to engage it without fleet and planet killers.

[ChiggyvonRichthofen]

On the one hand, it's JJ's fault for setting up obvious Rebellion-Empire stand-ins with no real explanation. I gather the new EU has tried to make sense of it, but from what I understand even their explanation relies on a galaxy full of idiots driving the plot forward. I know the politics in the PT have a bad reputation, but the shoddy world building is one of the biggest problems in the trilogy so far. On the other hand, this movie makes things possibly even worse. It's easy to forget that the events here supposedly take place a matter of hours/days after Starkiller base is destroyed, which takes place hours/days after the Grand New Republic was destroyed in one shot. Unbelievably, there's no repercussions of that. Everything that sets up this movie happens in the scant hours between the two movies.

The Last Jedi is being praised for not fitting into the preconceived notions of fans and disregarding various headcanons, but it does this by ignoring virtually everything that was set up in the first movie. I don't think watching these movies back to back is going to play well at all, and I have no idea how IX can possibly tie everything together so that the films actually function as a trilogy.


Yet another problem I have is Rey's training. Yoda has the line (paraphrasing) about students outgrowing/surpassing their masters, but I never got the sense that Rey actually needed Luke at all. We never see her using anything he taught her. Heck, most of what he told her was at least partly wrong anyway. Rey is likeable, but I was expecting her to face some serious challenges in this movie. For a movie about failure, her only failure was being too noble and virtuous to realize that Kylo was beyond saving (and who knows? maybe she'll be proven right on that too). Her trip doesn't even result in her convincing Luke to reconnect to the Force and help out a little bit, that's Leia's message and Yoda.

[PerrySimm]

...
The Last Jedi is being praised for not fitting into the preconceived notions of fans and disregarding various headcanons, but it does this by ignoring virtually everything that was set up in the first movie.
...
Yet another problem I have is Rey's training. Yoda has the line (paraphrasing) about students outgrowing/surpassing their masters, but I never got the sense that Rey actually needed Luke at all. We never see her using anything he taught her.

The fanon version of this film was "Rey is tempted by the Dark Side" - we didn't get that at all. No, Rey is straight out of Circle of Iron. The answers have always been within!

Everyone else gets to make errors that kill dozens to thousands. Rey just makes a few holes in an old monastery. I mean, that sliced stone could have easily *killed* one of the nuns. Playing it as a joke was not that fantastic, when it was such an opportunity to develop the characters.

If a nun had died because of Rey we'd actually see some internal tension, and possibly buy in for half a second that Rey joining the First Order is on the table. What if Luke has to acknowledge that this flawed student is the only chance to save the galaxy, and press on with the training anyway? What if Rey *wanted* to slice off the stone and kill something - even a hamsterduck? What if Luke has to actually contemplate striking down another student?

[Draco Dracul]

Rey did tell Luke that the First Order was only weeks away from controlling all the major systems.

Which doesn't make any goddamn fucking sense. Either they were a splinter faction that posed no obvious thread, so that the Senate could dwell in it's apparent lethargy without facing a major political upheaval or they were a major force that could hollow out a planet and build the biggest Deathstar that there ever was (remember, Palpatine's Empire was brought to collapse due to the costs involved in building two moon-sized objects), in addition to a staggering amount of capital ships and troops, which were enough to bring down a state that is literally galaxy-sized and consists of thousands of planets by blowing up five planets and seizing all major assets in a matter of weeks, maybe months at most, while the entire Republic had their thumbs up their collective arse for no reason whatsoever, while facing no repercussions from any of it's member states for the obvious stupidity in pretending that nothing is going on.

The First Order exists in a limbo between these two mutually exclusive states and it blows my mind, that the writers are not seeing this and trying to rectify it. Either they are a splinter group that just could not have the resources it apparently has or they are a superpower and everybody in a goddamned 1000 planet state is stupid enough to pretend that they aren't.

Yeah, I mean when in history has a dangerous nation state with obvious ambitions of conquest been ignored until it was too late? I mean who could imagine such a nation just rushing out of the gate and crushing a major power in some kind of lightning war, that'd just be ridiculous. That kind of thing only happens with poorly written fictional villains like the Nazis.