Discussing the StarFortress SF-17 Bombers from The Last Jedi aka WHERE THE HELL ARE THE Y-WINGS?!?!

[Winter]

It's no secret that I strongly dislike The Last Jedi, for me it was something of a Trilogy killer as many of my issues with the Trilogy can be traced back to this film. It's equally guilty of many of the same issues the Disney Sequel Trilogy suffers as a whole, a lack of original ideas, not taking advantage of the ideas that ARE original, fan service without meaning and just undoing the Original Trilogy's major story beats so to relive the past.

However, it also has a bunch of issues that are rather unique to itself. An unneeded 4th act that completely derailed the Trilogy by resolving every major plot point which left the third film with little to nothing to use. Demeaning Finn and Poe due to Rian Johnson's dislike of the characters, Rose being basically abusing Finn for the hence crime of not living up to her imagined version of him she created and Rey being relegated to tool to bridge the gap between Luke ad Kylo Ren aka the only characters Johnson had any real interest in developing because he apparently disliked every character and plot point from The Force Awakens except Kylo and Luke.

Combine that with his disregard to the lore of the series in favor of cool visuals without meaning, continuing derailing Rey, Finn and Poe to the point of them just relearning their lessons from TFA and yeah, not found of this film.

But one thing really has always stuck out to be that really captures this films obsession with contrived melodrama, disregarding the lore of the series in favor of contrived BS to make a point even that point doesn't really go anywhere. And that thing in question is the stupid bomber scene from the film's opening.

So, to recap, the first Order is heading to the Rebel Base to try and destroy the Resistance who are in the middle of evacuating said base. After a stupid crank call scene and the First Order deciding to shot at the mostly abandoned base instead of the rebel fleet that's literally right in front of them Poe calls in the StarFortress SF-17 bombers to destroy the Dreadnought.

These things are so stupid. They move at the speed of snail, they're more vulnerable to damage the Mass Effect's Hammerhead that's covered in Dynamite and Gasoline, look terrible and on top of all that these things are basically suicide run use only since the one that does manage to destroy the Dreadnought is itself destroyed in the process meaning that using these things are effectively a death sentence. And while watching this scene when it first came out there was only one thing on my mind, why they hell are they using the Y-Wings?

In the time it takes these bombers to fly up to the noise of the Dreadnought the Y-Wings could have destroyed the Bridge, the docking bay and the main weapon three times over. And they're less likely to blowup if you glance in their general direction.

Seriously when the film goes all slowmo and dramatic when Paige is trying to get the detonator (BTW why was the guy who had said detonator dead? I watched the scene Paige's Bomber is the only one that doesn't take a hit. Did he die? Or was he just knocked out) I just kept thinking, "No seriously where are the Y-Wings?"

This really did set the mood for me, as I kept going "Why are they doing this, wouldn't this be easier and save more time? Why are you all being so shit to one another? You know you all wouldn't be in this situation if you took the time to have a 1 minute conversation?"

One thing I've noticed about a lot of Rian Johnson's films over the years, he tends to write movies that are filled with idiots and assholes. That's not a criticism it's an observation as that works in many of his other movies like Knives Out, Glass Onion and Looper. But the problem here is he's taking character from other movies who weren't really stupid or assholes and making them stupid and assholes. Poe was a competent leader and loyal solider, until TLJ decided to make him a reckless hothead. Finn had overcame his need to remain neutral in the war by going to save his friend and take a direct stand against the First Order, even fighting Kylo Ren directly. Until TLJ just reused that plot and he's not trying to stay out of the fight as much as possible until forced to work with others. Rey had every reason to hate Kylo which is more then justifiable after he murdered Han and put Finn in a coma. Until TLJ where she's now in love with him... for some reason.

And with all this I keep looking back to those dumb bombers and it's kind of perfectly represents my issues with film. There is an easy solution that already exists in-universe and it's being ignored for contrived drama that frankly I don't even find compelling.

[Nealithi]

My first thought is merchandising. New movies need new clothes and new toys to sell. But honestly I think I see more prequel stuff than sequel stuff. Heck more Mandalorian items than sequel stuff.

The stated point of the SF-17 was to evoke the battles with the B17. Except the B17 was not that slow, had lots of gunners with a vested interest in taking out attacking fighters. These things came in like blimps flying low. The only way to salvage these things is to have Poe targeting gun directors and the bombers were effectively high over head. So the tie fighters 'climbed' up to take them on. Poe's mistake should have been ignoring a recall order to remain providing cover for the bombers. This would give Tie's time to hit the Resistance ships and leave them on a backup hyperdrive. Which is why they had the slow speed chase in space. Honestly what was with all the slow speed stuff? Star Wars has been about ripping about. The only thing that was slow was the Deathstar.

[hammerofglass]

It was also a bad case of the effects clearly not matching the script. They're so slow Leia's order to withdraw comes well after they're committed and too far away to dock before the dreadnought destroys the fleet, so what was supposed to be "Poe is a hothead who ignores sound tactical judgement from the older and wiser Leia" instead becomes "Leia gave clearly insane orders that would have gotten the whole fleet immediately killed if Poe had followed them." That change in tone has a ripple effect all the way the movie.

[stryke]

I'd argue in terms of logic and making sense in regard to space combat the film goes well out the window even before the bombers do their thing.

It's where a single X-Wing flies in front of a Star Destroyer to do bad 'your momma' jokes. Yes, the lampshade it by askng why haven't they launched the ties yet, but it doesn't make it any less dumb. If that big a ship with that many guns can't deal with a ship that tiny right in front of them then that makes them about as threatening as something from nerf.

It's all so very silly.

[Thebestoftherest]

Yeah, it feels like they were trying to make it like Marvel movies. Which doesn't really work, since I feel Star WArs should take it self more seriously.

[Winter]

It was also a bad case of the effects clearly not matching the script. They're so slow Leia's order to withdraw comes well after they're committed and too far away to dock before the dreadnought destroys the fleet, so what was supposed to be "Poe is a hothead who ignores sound tactical judgement from the older and wiser Leia" instead becomes "Leia gave clearly insane orders that would have gotten the whole fleet immediately killed if Poe had followed them." That change in tone has a ripple effect all the way the movie.

And that's another thing, Leia comes off as a TERRIBLE leader in all this. Again remember Johnson did not care for Poe so any character who gets angry at Poe is basically Johnson's mouth piece. He manufactures situations for Poe to be wrong without ever addressing the issues the other side causes.

For example why the Hell doesn't Leia call off the attack? She outranks Poe, if she thinks this is a bad plan then why does she just stand there and let it happen? Yet she never does, she just stands there and let's everyone get killed in a plan that is clearly stupid.

This means one of 2 things.

1: Leia just forgot she could call off the attack much like how Danny just sort of forgot about the Iron Fleet.

2: Leia decided to let the attack happen and to chastise Poe for it after.

The first one makes her look like an idiot, the second one makes her look like an asshole. In order to prove Poe is a hothead he has to several people killed but in order to do so Johnson makes Leia look worse because she knew this was a bad plan and let it happen anyway. She is just as if not more responsible for the death of these Rebels then Poe because she could have stopped the attack but choose to let it happen anyways.

It's often said that Leia is the only one of the Original Trio that managed to get out of this Trilogy mostly untouched but I'd argue she got hit just as bad as Luke and Han. She gets Han killed when she convinces him to try and redeem their son, gets several of her own Rebels killed and blames someone else for said mistake and after teaching Rey the ways of the Jedi she's actually seems to be worse at using the Force since she's now having trouble with Kylo Ren when she was shown to be more powerful then him without training.

It's only after Leia dies does Rey start to improve. Just to compare Obi-Wan was able to help Luke grasp the basics of the Force which allowed him to make an impossible shot and that was at most one day. Rey has been training under Leia for about a year and she's only gotten worse.

And I don't get why people think that Leia becoming a General over a Princess is some awesome promotion. Princesses are AWESOME!!!

Disney's single biggest franchise that it owns is The Disney Princesses. She-Ra and the Princesses of Power is my favorite show of all time and Leia was more of a badass when she was a Princess.

Generals can be cool too but Princesses are way cooler. Back when I was a kid I wanted to to be Princess or a Mandalorian way more then I ever wanted to be a Jedi (even tried to convince my parents to buy me a princess outfit for Halloween but they wouldn't let me).

[hammerofglass]

Generals can be cool too but Princesses are way cooler. Back when I was a kid I wanted to to be Princess or a Mandalorian way more then I ever wanted to be a Jedi (even tried to convince my parents to buy me a princess outfit for Halloween but they wouldn't let me).

Fouth season of Mandolrion where it turned into the Bo-Katan show must have been fun for you.

[Winter]

Generals can be cool too but Princesses are way cooler. Back when I was a kid I wanted to to be Princess or a Mandalorian way more then I ever wanted to be a Jedi (even tried to convince my parents to buy me a princess outfit for Halloween but they wouldn't let me).

Fouth season of Mandolrion where it turned into the Bo-Katan show must have been fun for you.

Haven't seen season 3 of Mandalorian yet. Love Raya and the Last Dragon though as that has badass Warrior Lesbian Princesses, even writing up a pitch for a video game Trilogy that works as a sequel to that, wish me luck.

[Al-1701]

Those things make the TIE Bomber look like the road runner in comparison. Why would the New Republic even build such a bulky and limited craft? They could have Y-Wings or better yet B-Wings that do the same job better with a single pilot and much less material.

Really, it all came down to Johnson wanting to burn everything down because he's a contrarian and the leadership in Lucasfilm letting him. The Force Awakens might've been a rehash of A New Hope, but it was a fine starting point. The Last Jedi is the millstone around the Sequel Trilogy's neck, sabotaging any potential The Force Awakens and forcing The Rise of Skywalker to waste its runtime on damage control.

[hammerofglass]

Those things make the TIE Bomber look like the road runner in comparison. Why would the New Republic even build such a bulky and limited craft? They could have Y-Wings or better yet B-Wings that do the same job better with a single pilot and much less material.

Really, it all came down to Johnson wanting to burn everything down because he's a contrarian and the leadership in Lucasfilm letting him. The Force Awakens might've been a rehash of A New Hope, but it was a fine starting point. The Last Jedi is the millstone around the Sequel Trilogy's neck, sabotaging any potential The Force Awakens and forcing The Rise of Skywalker to waste its runtime on damage control.

It was bound to happen when they decided to make it a round robin in the first place. Would have respected them more if they'd owned it and stuck with the original plan to have a third creative team finish it up.